Biting the bullet

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:24 am

Well, I saw a few great artists online, and I wrote them in the hopes of getting some commission work done. I'm long past the point of caring about having to pay to put out a free product, even though it pisses me off that the artists are the only ones getting paid. Bottom line, no good artists seem to be willing to work for free, despite the fact that everyone else is working free for the sheer enjoyment of it. I guess artists can't have fun unless they're being paid. Must be nice to command that kind of talent.

Anyway, the issue now is simply funding. I'm willing to dish out the money just to have a nice product, but considering we need at least 17 interior pieces and a full color cover, we're talking in the range of $1,000+ for some artists. I'm just not made of money!

So, with luck we'll find a few who won't break my pocket book. If I can snag one of the artists I wrote tonight and they're willing to do the cover in full color for no more than $200, I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and tweak the budget. I'm one of those people who just won't settle for less than the best.

For the interior art, I'm hoping to find an artist who will agree to doing a piece at a time, perhaps 2 pieces a month for a reasonable price, in order to break it down into digestible payments.

Anyway, wish me luck, guys. The art is what's keeping the Undermountain project slow. It's hard for me to be inspired when I feel like we're going to have to release it without art because we can't get any artists.

I lost all contact information for Brannon, our Caves of Sydwall artist, with the computer crash. Hopefully I can recover that.

Post by **Beowulf** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:04 am

Okay, I'm just thinking out loud here, but have you considered a fund drive? You could easily do a PayPal link. I realize you don't have a ton of traffic here so maybe it won't help much, but you're doing it for basically free, right?

I'd pony up.

Post by **Varl** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:04 pm

Also, while it may not live up to your expectations or desires Halaster, I wouldn't mind an Undermountain expansion that had no art other than the map. Art is only useful to me anyway when important props or areas can be shown to the players instead of having to describe them, but hey, we're DMs. We're used to describing things.

As a matter of fact, I already own a variation of an Undermountain expansion done by Steven Allen, which is nothing more than a Word doc, and I really enjoy reading it. Something to think about. I know you want a product to be commercially attractive and aesthetically similar to old school modules, but I for one would settle for a simple Word doc mainly because they're so easily editable for home use.

Post by **McDeath** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:13 pm

Is the Steve Allen one the one on Candlekeep (lists npcs and some room descriptions) or is it something completely different? I'm of split minds as to art as well. Generally, I prefer art reserved for monsters (though a cover is quite nice). Personally, if it was permitable, I don't mind recycled art from various realms projects or pics found around the web or in published modules (course that can lead to trouble I suppose). I assume that pics inside are generally b/w right?

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:36 pm

Beowulf wrote:

Okay, I'm just thinking out loud here, but have you considered a fund drive? You could easily do a PayPal link. I realize you don't have a ton of traffic here so maybe it won't help much, but you're doing it for basically free, right?

We had the idea a year or so ago, and we were collecting gaming material for an ebay auction. But unfortunately, people never came through with the donations.

Varl wrote:

Also, while it may not live up to your expectations or desires Halaster, I wouldn't mind an Undermountain expansion that had no art other than the map. Art is only useful to me anyway when important props or areas can be shown to the players instead of having to describe them, but hey, we're DMs. We're used to describing things.

I see what you're saying, but I think it just lessens the impact it should make. Or at least, the impact I envisioned it making. Modules and boxed sets always have art, and it definitely makes it look more professional. Plus, it helps for things that are difficult to describe. Like this:

It just sets the mood so much better.

I know you want a product to be commercially attractive and aesthetically similar to old school modules, but I for one would settle for a simple Word doc mainly because they're so easily editable for home use.

I figured we could also have the text-only version for just that reason, in Word format. But I really want the real thing to look nice. If it doesn't feel like Undermountain, well...

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:40 pm

McDeath wrote:

Is the Steve Allen one the one on Candlekeep (lists npcs and some room descriptions) or is it something completely different? I'm of split minds as to art as well. Generally, I prefer art reserved for monsters (though a cover is quite nice). Personally, if it was permitable, I don't mind recycled art from various realms projects or pics found around the web or in published modules (course that can lead to trouble I suppose). I assume that pics inside are generally b/w right?

Yep, that's the same Steve Allen.

The problem with the art is that using published art is an almost certain way to incur the wrath of WOTC lawyers. It's one thing to do a compatible fan product for free. But using copyrighted artwork is about as bad as it gets. I'm willing to thumb my nose at WOTC, but not willing to pull my pants down and bend over!

Well this sucks. The two artists I wrote last night? Their emails both bounced as non-existent addresses, even though that's whats on their websites. Sigh.

Post by **McDeath** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:48 pm

That is a rather nice pic above.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:17 am

McDeath, that's from Maciek, our artist from Poland. Unfortunately, he's once again incommunicado.

I have an idea. Let's start a collection to send Halaster to art school!

Post by **Minstrel** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:32 pm

Is that the same Maciek from http://www.theforge.pl/?

They have a "free" section with some nice artwork suitable for a module. Unfortunately most of the images have a big logo in some section of them. Given that there's no specific license, not sure if they could be modified freely or not. The domain the forum was on has also lapsed and is now monetized by a scummy domainer.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:14 am

I saw that. Yup, that's our Maciek. Wish I could reach him. He did some awesome character pics for Trobriand, Arcturia, and another new apprentice I created (one of the currently unnamed original Seven). Plus he did 2 or 3 other rooms in addition to that one.

I just want it to look uniform. Man, I need to go to art school.

Post by **Jared Synn** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:29 pm

Wow, he has some nice work! Hopefully you can get in touch with him.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:27 am

Jared, I tried both email addresses I have for him, and both are dead. I checked to see if he had a recent post at Mortality, but no luck there either. I have no idea what else to do.

Man, I'd love to have him do the rest of the art. He's really good, and he churns the art out pretty quickly. The email I sent to him that bounced indicated that we'd actually pay him at this point. A few years back, when he did the first set of art for us, I made a trade with him. I helped translate their Polish adventures into English (polishing grammar, spelling, etc), in exchange for art. But then he had a long bout of illness and then a new baby added to the family and I believe he was out of the country for awhile. Then he got inundated with work at his job, much like Lorne did, and we got stuck without an artist.

I'm networking now, and looking for the right artist. If anyone can find contact info for Karl Waller, I think I'd sell a kidney to afford him! Imagine the original Undermountain artist (and one of my all time favorite AD&D artists) doing the art for our project! Mindboggling!!

Post by **radwizard** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:15 am

Halaster Blackcloak wrote: We had the idea a year or so ago, and we were collecting gaming material for an ebay auction. But unfortunately, people never came through with the donations.

Hey, Hal, I tell ya what, I've got a ton of stuff in storage, it's back in Illinois, and I'm in Washington state right now, but I'll be headed back home here in about 5 weeks, if you want i'll look through the extra stuff I have and we could collaborate to see if there is anything in there that would help the project out, PM me and we could work out the details. :mrgreen:

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:57 am

Wow! Cool Radwizard! Thanks!

I have a small handful of stuff to throw in myself. Where will you be in Illinois? Anywhere near the Chicagoland area?

Post by **Jared Synn** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:40 pm

I can dig around and see if there's anything I don't need that can be added to the pot.