Wild large cats, that can be ridden??

[garhkal]

One of my newer players, is playing a Halfling thief. And was wondering, are there any known large "Predatory" CATS, that he may be able to find, tame and use as a mount? Other than the elven Fey-cat, which iirc is specific to Evermeet, i don't know of any.. Lynxs and Cougars/jaguars, iirc do NOT have the 'spine' or back, to allow riding, but i've heard rumors of some folks riding Tigers....

[Halaster Blackcloak]

For small PCs like halflings, gnomes, etc., I'd allow them to ride most wild large cats as long as:

1. The cat is on the large size for its species - even a cougar could probably "ride" a halfling or gnome. Lynxes are pretty strong too. Panthers, cheetahs and the like are built more for speed and aren't muscular enough for weight bearing of a rider, so perhaps I would disallow those. Tigers? 800 to 1,000 pounds of pure muscle. Hell, it would be able to support a human paladin in full plate armor!

2. The cat can be "tamed". I hate to say tamed because the cat should be a wildcat, not domesticated. But if the PC can build a rapport and form a bond with the cat, that's good.

Bottom line, since it's a fantasy game, I'm willing to bend reality to some degree. Is a tiger or lion strong enough to support smaller humans and gnomes, dwarves, halflings, etc. in reality? Sure. Could it be done? Probably not in strict reality but within the game, the cool factor overrules the strict adherence to reality.

[garhkal]

Now comes the question, of how would he LEARN any of that, in game, then go about finding one.

[McDeath]

Create a special breed. Now in D&D or Isle of dread maybe, I thought the Rakasta cat people rode smilodon sabre-tooth tigers. Obviously MOTU HE-MAN has Battle-cat & Panthor and even dinos and shit. Create a new rare breed bred by an isolated group. Boar riding sure seems popular amongst goblins, orcs, and dwarves.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

Now comes the question, of how would he LEARN any of that, in game, then go about finding one.

Not sure I know what you mean. How does he go about finding the great at? Or how does he go about "taming" it? The former I would just assume the PC has heard of the great cats just like we all know about them in the real world. He might only know about some, as he may not have access to information from other continents like we do. As for taming it or rather finding a way to use it as a mount, I'd say he'd probably have to use an animal friendship spell and speak with animals spell to strike a deal with the animal. He helps the cat hunt and find prey, maybe offers it shelter and healing (when needed) and in turn the animal serves as a mount and sidekick. The PC might even ask a druid for help finding the animal. That could turn into an interesting option.

And as McDeath points out, there's no reason to limit ourselves to real world animals since it's a fantasy game. Smilodons may exist. He might even be able to befriend a dire wolf, though that might have alignment issues. Or as McDeath suggests, he might find a wizard to help create a new breed, or even magically enhance a particular cat to help him. Imagine riding an 800 lb. tiger made of pure muscle, sharp teeth and lethal claws, then give it a regeneration ability or an even quicker healing factor (ala Wolverine at Marvel Comics)! Yikes!

[McDeath]

Saddle up that displacer beast!

It "Easley" could be a mount. Har har har!

Who the hell skinned the beholder?

UMBER HULK RIGHTS!
UMBER HULK LIVES MATTER!!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

One of my goofy players - he played a wizard in my original Undermountain campaign - wanted a displacer beast as a familiar.

He had gotten a wish somehow - a genie bottle or a scroll or something. He wanted to use the wish to get a displacer beast familiar. Note that this was maybe a 5th-level wizard or something (at most), relatively low level. He also wanted the wish to make it so they could "never be parted", i.e. the displacer would always be with him.

I told him if he used the wish like that, I would either have his character and the displacer beast grafted together at the ribs like Siamese twins, or he would become a hybrid - his wizard from his head down to his waist, and below his waist a displacer beast. Sorta like a displacer centaur for lack of a better description. He changed his mind. That was just way too powerful a familiar for a low level wizard. Maybe at 18th level it wouldn't matter, but it was ridiculous to ask at 4th or 5th level.

The player was literally insane. In real life he pretended he was a vampire and he wore a cape and if we walked past a church he would cover his head with his cape and hiss. I do have to give him props though, he played his wizard with a relish I've rarely seen and he projected himself so into the character I think that at time he thought he was the character! Yes, his PC wanted to become a vampire and all that. He's one of the characters of my original Undermountain group that I've paid homage to in RoUIII: The Deadly Levels. He's now a vampire wizard, laired in the Level of the Damned - a sub-level that branches off Level 8. He finally got his wish, only to regret it!

His younger brother played a barbarian and the two fought all the time - in game and out! Not disruptively, but just enough to there the wizard always hid his magical stuff so his brother the barbarian would not destroy it. It was hysterical watching them divide treasure when they found a hoard - the frantic actions of the wizard to spot any magical tomes and grab the before the barbarian took his axe to it!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

That compendium cover, btw, is my all time favorite art for both the umber hulk and the displacer beast. The beholder, as you pointed out, McDeath, looks like it was fucking skinned alive!

[garhkal]

Not sure I know what you mean. How does he go about finding the great at?

More like finding out what cat(s), may be ridden. THEN where they would be located at to find.

Or how does he go about "taming" it? The former I would just assume the PC has heard of the great cats just like we all know about them in the real world. He might only know about some, as he may not have access to information from other continents like we do.

Exactly. He may know of say tigers/lions in game, because they are 'common lore beasts'. BUT since the area they game in, has no desert so to speak, known of, he would have a hard time finding any. He knows of mountains, so there MAY BE lynxs or cougars (mountain lions). BUT imo from wha i've read on them, they wouldn't really be good for riding.. Even for a HALFLING....

As for taming it or rather finding a way to use it as a mount, I'd say he'd probably have to use an animal friendship spell and speak with animals spell to strike a deal with the animal.

As a thief, that would be hard to do..

[McDeath]

Yeah, that triple mob photo stuff from Easley started with the AC2 Combat shield+mini adventure.


Or maybe there is an older lineup.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garkhal wrote:

More like finding out what cat(s), may be ridden. THEN where they would be located at to find.

For issues like that. I always suggest telling them they may have to consult with a sage. Great way to burn off some of their excess gold too!

Exactly. He may know of say tigers/lions in game, because they are 'common lore beasts'. BUT since the area they game in, has no desert so to speak, known of, he would have a hard time finding any. He knows of mountains, so there MAY BE lynxs or cougars (mountain lions). BUT imo from wha i've read on them, they wouldn't really be good for riding.. Even for a HALFLING....

Well, the average halfling weighs 50 to 60 lbs.

Cougars are about 7' long from nose to tail and stand 3' high at the shoulder, weighing in at an average of 150 lbs. and going as high as 200 lbs. All muscle. I'd definitely allow a halfling to ride a cat that big.

Jaguars are even bigger - the third largest cat behind tiger and lions. They can weigh up to 300+ lbs.

Cheetahs are built for speed and less muscular and weigh a lot less and are smaller than jaguars or cougars, so I'd possible exclude them.

Lynxes are much smaller than the others - about 35 to 50 lbs. Not big enough for a halfling to ride.

Snow leopards can hit a weight of 165 lbs. although it is shorter at the shoulder and somewhat shorted than a cheetah but I'd argue it could carry a halfling.

Again, since it's a fantasy game, you could always allow for an exceptionally large cat of any species. For example, a cougar that weighs in at say 250 lbs. and that is a little over 3' at the shoulder.

As a thief, that would be hard to do..

Right. I meant he could could use the spell in the sense of having it cast for him by a wizard or priest or using a scroll, etc.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

McDeath, I remember that combat shield! Obviously the creature on the right is a shambling mound, the center I suppose is an owlbear (though its face looks wrong), but what the hell is that supposed to be on the left? A troll? Damned muscular for a troll!

[McDeath]

That'd be my guess: Troll, Owlbear, Shambling Mound.

The issue: I don't recall shambling mounds in MOLDVAY nor MENTZER Basic-Expert-companion-Master-Immortal (really only have to focus basic-expert).

[garhkal]

I'd definitely allow a halfling to ride a cat that big.

ITS not just their size. BUT their SPINE. I forget which site it was, but when i did a duckduckgo search for 'riding a big cat', one mentioned "Many big cats lack the TYPE of spine, that bulls, horses and other quadrupeds to, to allow them to be 'ridden'.. Tigers, are one of the rare ones that have the spine needed..
NOT anything to do with their size/weight.

As a thief, that would be hard to do..

Right. I meant he could could use the spell in the sense of having it cast for him by a wizard or priest or using a scroll, etc.

Then wouldn't that make it the friend OF THE priest or wizard??

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

ITS not just their size. BUT their SPINE. I forget which site it was, but when i did a duckduckgo search for 'riding a big cat', one mentioned "Many big cats lack the TYPE of spine, that bulls, horses and other quadrupeds to, to allow them to be 'ridden'.. Tigers, are one of the rare ones that have the spine needed..
NOT anything to do with their size/weight.

True, I'm just saying - do we really need that much realism in a fantasy game? Me personally, I'd rather ignore the more realistic aspects of the real world animals and allow it for the cool factor. Hell, if need be, you could always have the halfling create or buy a saddle that fits on the cat's shoulders instead of spine.

Then wouldn't that make it the friend OF THE priest or wizard??

If the priest cast it directly on the animal, yes. But if he places it on a scroll, the thief can cast it from the scroll himself. For animal friendship I mean. Or perhaps have a druid (or maybe cleric) create a potion of animal friendship.

[garhkal]

Garhkal wrote:

ITS not just their size. BUT their SPINE. I forget which site it was, but when i did a duckduckgo search for 'riding a big cat', one mentioned "Many big cats lack the TYPE of spine, that bulls, horses and other quadrupeds to, to allow them to be 'ridden'.. Tigers, are one of the rare ones that have the spine needed..
NOT anything to do with their size/weight.

True, I'm just saying - do we really need that much realism in a fantasy game? Me personally, I'd rather ignore the more realistic aspects of the real world animals and allow it for the cool factor. Hell, if need be, you could always have the halfling create or buy a saddle that fits on the cat's shoulders instead of spine.

I've never been one of those who 'just because its kewl', lets real world stuff, get tossed..

If the priest cast it directly on the animal, yes. But if he places it on a scroll, the thief can cast it from the scroll himself. For animal friendship I mean. Or perhaps have a druid (or maybe cleric) create a potion of animal friendship.

The group averages 4th. Kind of hard for anyone to make a scroll or potion, OR for a thief to read a scroll..

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

I've never been one of those who 'just because its kewl', lets real world stuff, get tossed..

I normally don't either, but within reason. I certainly wouldn't let a human ride a cheetah or something like that. But I'd let a halfling ride a cougar, because that's at least within the realm of believability. A cougar of maximum size, a halfling of average size...something like that I can see working. I try to keep games "real world realistic" only to the point where they don't strain suspension of disbelief. Even then though, different DMs, players and groups will usually have some variance as to exactly where that line is drawn.

The group averages 4th. Kind of hard for anyone to make a scroll or potion, OR for a thief to read a scroll..

In that case, probably his only option is to pay a sage and then a druid or cleric. That might make a cool adventure - the church can tell him they will provide him with an animal mount made friendly to him, if he goes on a quest or moderate level mission for the church.

[garhkal]

Now to work up where some cats are.. based on what the terrain is they are home based in..