1 or 2e.. Chill metal + create water??

[garhkal]

Under the heat/chill metal spell, it says

By means of the heat metal spell, the caster is able to make ferrous metal (iron, iron alloys, steel) extremely hot. Elven chain mail is not affected, and magical metal armor receives an item saving throw vs. magical fire to avoid being heated. The material component is a holy symbol.
On the first round of the spell, the metal merely becomes very warm and uncomfortable to touch (this is also the effect on the last melee round of the spell's duration). During the second and sixth (next to the last) rounds, heat causes blisters and damage; in the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, the metal becomes searing hot, causing damage to exposed flesh, as shown below:

Metal Temperature Damage per Round
very warm none
hot 1d4 points
searing* 2d4 points

* On the final round of searing, the afflicted creature must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or suffer one of the following disabilities: hand or foot--becomes unusable for 2d4 days; body--becomes disabled for 1d4 days; head--fall unconscious for 1d4 turns. This effect can be completely removed by the 6th-level priest spell heal spell or by normal rest.

Note also that materials such as wood, leather, or flammable cloth smolder and burn if exposed to searing hot metal. Such materials cause searing damage to exposed flesh on the next round. Fire resistance (spell, potion, or ring) or a protection from fire spell totally negates the effects of a heat metal spell, as does immersion in water or snow, or exposure to a cold or ice storm spell. This version of the spell does not function under water. For every two experience levels of the caster, the metal of one man-sized creature can be affected (i.e., arms and armor, or a single mass of metal equal to 50 pounds of weight). Thus, a 3rd-level caster would affect one such creature, a 4th- or 5th-level caster two, etc.
The reverse of the spell, chill metal, counters a heat metal spell or else causes metal to act as follows:

Metal Temperature Damage per Round
cold none
icy 1-2 points
freezing* 1d4 points

* On the final round of freezing, the afflicted creature must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or suffer from the numbing effects of the cold. This causes the loss of all feeling in a hand (or hands, if the DM rules the saving throw was failed badly) for 1d4 days. During this time, the character's grip is extremely weak and he cannot use that hand for fighting or any other activity requiring a firm grasp.

Now, what would happen say, if in the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds, while the armor is at the freezing temperature level, someone doused the target, with a create water spell? Would he freeze solid?
Would he get slowed?
Suffer any other impact?

[garhkal]

How much would you say it should cost a mage PC, to have an NPC craft him a Scroll of Polymorph other? I see nothing in the DMG (either 1 or 2e) on the cost of 'getting an NPC to CAST a poly spell, while other 4th or so level spells, some can average 800 to 1,500gp to get cast.. So would crafting a scroll, be any pricier than say 2 to 4k??

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

Now, what would happen say, if in the 3rd, 4th or 5th rounds, while the armor is at the freezing temperature level, someone doused the target, with a create water spell? Would he freeze solid?
Would he get slowed?
Suffer any other impact?

Hmmm. Very interesting question! I could make an argument for several different outcomes. I'll tackle them one-by-one.

1. Nothing Happens - In this case, the DM would rule that the effect of the magic on the armor is not sufficiently powerful to freeze the water being thrown on it or cast on it. It's merely a localized effect and at worst the armor would merely become coated with a thin layer of frost or thin ice for the duration of the chill metal.

2. Lessens the Effect of the Spell - In this case, assuming the water is room temperature (or in any case not literally ice cold), the water stifles the chill effect somewhat. This would be a generally real-world interpretation, and it's something I've experienced. Say it's 20 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. A piece of metal sitting in that temperature all day, if held against the skin, would do damage similar to the chill metal spell. But if I throw room temperature or even cold water on it, the temperature of the water is far higher than the temperature of the metal and simple physics tells us that the metal will absorb heat (in this case "heat" being defined relative to the colder temperature of the metal) from the water, which would "warm" up the metal (i.e. it would become less cold, perhaps say 10 degrees below zero now). So in this case, the water would reduce the amount of cold being generated by the chill metal spell by applying "heat" (in the strictest physics sense), so the victim would take less damage - say perhaps minimum damage or half damage.

3. Freezing Solid - Here the DM could rule that the intense cold of the spell freezes the water and either forms a coating of ice (thick or thin, as the DM wishes) or perhaps even forms a solid block as in the example you mentioned. The DM would have a wide range of effect for this case - anywhere from the PC being encased in a solid block of ice (if hit with a create water spell, for example) to merely being covered in a coating of ice (only on the armor or items affected).

Of the three general options, I don't much like the first one (nothing happens). I tend to like interesting effects and side effect, and I think something should happen if the person is doused with water while under a chill metal spell. The second option (lessens the effect of the spell) doesn't quite grab me either. It's too scientific (regardless of it being accurate or "correct"), and it makes the solution the problem too convenient. Everyone carries water, so it's too easy a fix to counter a chill metal spell. The third option (freezing solid) is the one I'd go with. However, I wouldn't allow the affected PC to be encased in a block of ice. The spell just isn't that powerful, as far as I'm concerned. Compare the paltry damage of the chill metal spell to the far more massive damage of a cone of cold or Otiluke's freezing sphere spell. I just don't see a chill metal spell having the power to freeze a victim inside a block of water. Also, the water - if thrown on the PC affected by the spell - would simply run off. It's not like it's in long contact with the chilled metal. You throw a bucket of water on someone, most of it ends up on the floor within a second or two. So I would rule that the water merely forms a thin layer of ice atop the armor affected by the chill metal. I would not have it affect the damage or duration of the spell.

As far as slowing the victim, I could see possibly see an argument for someone in chain mail being slowed (as the mail shirt becomes a stiff corset), although I wouldn't rule in favor of that. To me, the ice formed would be far too thin to actually inhibit movement. And it would be out of the question for plate armor, as the joints are not metal so it would not affect movement.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

How much would you say it should cost a mage PC, to have an NPC craft him a Scroll of Polymorph other? I see nothing in the DMG (either 1 or 2e) on the cost of 'getting an NPC to CAST a poly spell, while other 4th or so level spells, some can average 800 to 1,500gp to get cast.. So would crafting a scroll, be any pricier than say 2 to 4k??

Oh man, I'm rusty with this! Haven't gamed for awhile now and haven't had this come up in forever. I'm checking the 1E DMG. I see:

Astral Spell = 5,000 (per person)
Control Weather = 10,000
Cure Deafness/Blindness = 1,000
Earthquake = 10,000
Raise Dead = 1,000 + 500 per level of spellcaster (so a total of about 5,500 minimum)
Heal = 200 per point of healing (an average character would be paying around 6,000)

I wouldn't base it on the level of the spell, but rather on the desirability of the spell, or risk involved. For example, a character would value a heal or raise dead spell far more than a rainbow or part water spell, so a heal spell would cost more than a part water spell despite them being the same level, as would the raise dead spell be more costly than the equal level spell rainbow.

I'd say probably no more than 500 gp to cast the spell itself, plus costs for the parchment, ink, special ingredients needed, etc. No more than say 1,000 gp.