How do PRIESTS identify magic items???

[garhkal]

How do YOU have priests identify magic items (not just detect their being magical, bt figure out what they are)? Would priests who worship gods of knowledge, or even magic, be ok to have a version (say 2nd level) of identify, that maybe is not as good (say 6%/level vice 10%), so as "TO NOT STEP ON MAGES TOES??"

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I usually have them use use spells such as divination, commune or augury, something from the priest spell list. Not a strictly by-the-book use of the spell, but something has to serve that purpose. I've also allowed the priest to simply fast and pray and make offerings in order to receive a vision explaining the magic item's powers and uses. I'd never worry about stepping on the mage's toes. To me that's not an issue.

[garhkal]

So would THIS spell, be IYO, too outlandish??

DIscernment
L2 priest spell, SPECIFIC TO PRIESTS who follow the god of knowledge (Save'K'Nor for my realm).
School: Divination
Sphere: Divination
Casting time: 1 turn
Duration: 1 round, +1 round/level
Range: Touch
Area of effect: 1 item/function per round
Save: Na
Components: V/S/M

Description
Priests specifically, of the god of knowledge, have been granted this spell, since priests normally do not have access to mage spells. Discernment, does for these priests, what the identify spell, does for mages, in that when cast, the priest can handle, don, or otherwise use a magic item,in it's normal manner, to try and discern what properties it has. LIKE with identify though, this means that any curses or other negative effects, will befall the cleric casting it.

A priest has a 6% chance per level (instead of the mage's normal 10%), of successfully identifying one PROPERTY of an item, per round of the spell's duration. And like with the identify spell, it caps out at a maximum of 90% success. If a caster rolls a 91-95%, he learns nothing, but if he rolls a 96-00%, he gets a false or opposite reading.

Each round of the spell's duration, he can handle one magic item, and learn possibily, ONE Of its functions, so for items like wands and rods which often have multiple functions, he will need multiple rounds of handling it, to learn them all. THOUGH Unlike with identify, this spell does NOT count command words, as one of those functions.
Exact + value of armor/weapons, are also not learned, but a general feel of it's power (Low, medium or high), is instead given. Low is +1 or +2, Medium is +3 or +4, and high is +5.
For charges, it reading are; almost empty, low, moderate, high, or almost full (in 20% increments). So for a wand which had 41 charges,it would read low to moderate, while a staff which had 16 charges, would read moderate to high.

The cleric needs his holy symbol, and 100gp worth of incense, which is burnt and wafted over the items to be scanned..

After the spell's ran its course, the cleric is left drained and fatigued.. HIS mind is wiped of all other spells he had in memory, and needs 48 hrs of rest, before he can spend time trying to memorize new ones, and both his strength and con, drop by 5 for a period of 24 hours.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I like it a lot, overall! Only two quibbles I have with it:

1. I don't see the need to make it less effective than the wizard spell identify. If anything, I would say a priest would have a better chance than a wizard, since the info is coming from a god/divine source, not a mortal one. For sake of simplicity, I would just give it the same 10% per level. I don't see the purpose of handicapping the cleric.

2. I think wiping all the spells from the priest's mind is way, way too harsh, and again, I don't see why you'd want to do that. There's no need to balance it with the wizard's spell. There are plenty of spells common to both classes such as dispel magic, true seeing, faerie fire, etc. One does not intrude on the other.

I love the spell otherwise, especially the name - discernment - it vibrates with a priestly wisdom feel.

[garhkal]

I like it a lot, overall! Only two quibbles I have with it:

1. I don't see the need to make it less effective than the wizard spell identify. If anything, I would say a priest would have a better chance than a wizard, since the info is coming from a god/divine source, not a mortal one. For sake of simplicity, I would just give it the same 10% per level. I don't see the purpose of handicapping the cleric.

2. I think wiping all the spells from the priest's mind is way, way too harsh, and again, I don't see why you'd want to do that. There's no need to balance it with the wizard's spell. There are plenty of spells common to both classes such as dispel magic, true seeing, faerie fire, etc. One does not intrude on the other.

I love the spell otherwise, especially the name - discernment - it vibrates with a priestly wisdom feel.

I was making it Weaker at a base, since the god i was developing this for, "SAVE'K'NOR" in my home game, that realm's "God of knowledge", has a very good granted power that his priests benefit from. ANY divination spell they cast, is at 5 levels HIGHER, for how effective it is..
So a 4th level priest, if at the 10%/lev, would be at 90%, due to that granted power..
With it only being 6% a lev, even though they count as 5+ levels, that's still somewhat better than a mage of equal level.. As a 3rd level priest, would count as 8th, so would be 8x6 = 48%.. STILL 18% more than an equal level mage...

HECK< i may even drop it to 5%, because of that.


As for the wiping memory, imo i did that as to me, since they are losing con/str, they should feel very drained.. Just not as bad as a mage would (not as high a loss of con/str), but since mages get a 24 hr period of needing rest afterwards, i was thinking that priests would be ok for 48.. Would it be better if i just made it the same 24 hrs?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Garhkal wrote:

I was making it Weaker at a base, since the god i was developing this for, "SAVE'K'NOR" in my home game, that realm's "God of knowledge", has a very good granted power that his priests benefit from. ANY divination spell they cast, is at 5 levels HIGHER, for how effective it is..
So a 4th level priest, if at the 10%/lev, would be at 90%, due to that granted power..
With it only being 6% a lev, even though they count as 5+ levels, that's still somewhat better than a mage of equal level.. As a 3rd level priest, would count as 8th, so would be 8x6 = 48%.. STILL 18% more than an equal level mage...

Ah, I see! That's one of the problems with designing and using spells that vary in power based on the character's level. At low levels, it's not very effective, while at high levels it's almost guaranteed to work every time. I've never found a workable way around that.

As for the wiping memory, imo i did that as to me, since they are losing con/str, they should feel very drained.. Just not as bad as a mage would (not as high a loss of con/str), but since mages get a 24 hr period of needing rest afterwards, i was thinking that priests would be ok for 48.. Would it be better if i just made it the same 24 hrs?

I've never understood why the identify spell caused an 8 pt. drop in CON for wizards in the first place. That to me is inexplicable and just insane, considering it's a pathetic 1st level spell. It also makes no sense because the identify spell says that if a wizard drops below CON 1, he's unconscious. But that's not how it works for any other spell or effect anywhere else in the game. Everywhere else, at CON 0, you're dead. So it's inconsistent with the rule as shown everywhere else.

I also never understood why the rules as written were so anal about making it nearly impossible to know what a magic item is or what it does. Taking that too far slows the game and renders the item almost useless. It's as if Gary was as afraid of letting his players know what a magic item did as he was afraid of having demi-humans in the party!

But back to your question, I would make the exhaustion an equal or arguably even a shorter period of time than for a wizard for two reasons we've each mentioned - one being that the power of discernment is being granted by a god, not a wizard, and second because the cleric or priest has a better CON than a wizard, in virtually every case. So it shouldn't affect a cleric as badly as it does a wizard. Also, the identify spell doesn't specify any loss of memorized spells, so I wouldn't handicap the priest that way either.

Though honestly, I fail to see why a spell that simply identifies an item would be so exhausting. Ever since the first day I read the identify spell decades ago, it's never made sense to me.

[garhkal]

Since L1 and 2 spells, come specifically from the preists OWN FAITH, how is it, "The power of the gods" fueling it?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

True, with low level spells it's the priest's faith that powers it, but the way I'd see it is that it's still divine magic, not arcane magic. So it shouldn't have such a deleterious effect on the priest. I can't imagine a priest being so drained merely from praying to his deity for such a low level spell.

[Tawnos76]

I always thought that Priests should have some version of Identify in their divine spells. I agree that it should not be harmful to the priest. Although each god could decide slightly different ways that an after effect could be given determined by the alignment of the priest or god being prayed to. I would think any good aligned would not have an issue with this being a their prayer repertoire. Might be the same for nuetral but evil aligned priests might (should) have a cost associated with it.

[garhkal]

Did you like the write up i put in for discernment, and the shifting of the mat component, being incense, rather than a pearl??

[Tawnos76]

Did you like the write up i put in for discernment, and the shifting of the mat component, being incense, rather than a pearl??

I do like your write up and think it has good merit in the game. Although I will admit that I am one who not always cared about Material components and let magic and prayers just go off anyways. This itself could be a discussion on its own.

[garhkal]

Generally, if a material component is Under 10gp, i consider a cleric (or mage) having a good # of them, BY merely paying his monthly living expenses.. IF ITS 10gp or MORE, they need to specify how many they have.. SO pearls, incense, holy water vials etc.. THEY need to track the...

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Tawnos wrote:

This itself could be a discussion on its own.

Good idea! Want to get it started?