How important are the gods?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Just how important are the gods, in the AD&D game? I had this discussion with an old faming buddy the other day. I was telling him about the debates...scratch that...flame wars on DF about whether Deities & Demigods is considered "core" rules. To me, they're core rules because they explain how the gods and different pantheons work. But how important are the gods in a game?

To me, I'd say they're very important. Hell, I'd go so far as to say I can't imagine a D&D game washout them! Through all the various sources of mythology and fantasy literature that forms the basis of D&D, the gods are a integral part of the world, campaign, mythos, etc. Without gods you're missing all sorts of aspects of the game - from calling down divine favor to healing spells to the entire archetype of the cleric itself.

I know some people (especially at DF), have this pathological hatred for "gawds" as they derisively call them. I don't see the problem. I can't even imagine a game without gods. Imagine a warrior fighting frost giants with a war hammer and not being able to yell - "Oh mighty Thor, guide and strengthen my arm so I may slay these wicked giants!". Imagine no cleric and no healing spells. No resurrections. No divine favors. Sure, you can create necromantic spells to bring the dead back, but those spells are generally and rightfully wicked spells - raising zombies or skeletons or ju-ju zombies.

Imagine having no temples to go to in order to receive healing. No omens or portents. Hell, without gods there pretty much aren't any outer planes, nor would we likely have alignment. Or at least, no consequences of alignment, violating alignment or changing alignment.

Since the gods are so important, I can't see how a book like Deities & Demigods can be not considered a core book. To me, there are (going to 1E), 6 core books:

1. Player's Handbook - all the core rules for character creation, spells, etc
2. Dungeon Master's Guide - all the core rules for DMs to use, treasure tables, etc.
3. Monster Manual I - all the core rules of the monsters
4. Monster Manual II - all the core rules of the monsters
5. Manual of the Planes - all the core rules of the various planes
6. Deities & Demigods - all the core rules of the gods, worship, etc

Those 6 books cover every aspect of the game - anything and everything you need or want to play any aspect of the game.

Finally...clerics. Without gods, you have no clerics. Without clerics you have no healing or curing spells, no temples, nothing. And while some say you can give the cleric spells to a wizard and make him a necromancer, that's just not a true archetype like the other classes are. It just won't feel right. So I'd say the gods are pretty important in a game.

[garhkal]

Without gods you ALSO loose out on Turning undead!!!

[McDeath]

Back in Moldvay basic days (my intro) Gods never really came up. Generic Cleric and assumption of a divinity but no real face. Core classes and race classes served a function as a bridge from DUNGEON! Boardgame to roleplaying game. It was a box handed down to me from my Dad that played eith a group of friends back in the days when my parents had close friends come over so the wives wiuld play also. Couldn't have been too big of a group 6-8 maybe. I was probably a toddler or something. Didn't see the box until 1st-4th grade I think (sketchy memory) They worked and this was just one of many games these couples tried when they had get togethers.

So, by the time I had this box I was already drawing weird maps and making my own rules from early video games and computer RPGS i saw. A chessboard was my combat board and checkers and small plastic kids toys my figurines along with game board pieces.

When I actually got to read thr rules to D&D I was a little overwhelmed but started to absorb it quick enough. Never really thought too hard on GODs and stuff until later. Tbh, i was perhaps lazy with divinity. Classes were only functions & access to skills or spells others didn't have. I wonder if I had actually used gods that things would have been different in early years. It is a whole different game when you use only the simplest of mechanics. And maybe if I was started with the LBB (LWB?) the original game, that things might have been different.

Even as I delved into 1e a tad but dunked into 2e I just never really used gods. Today it'd be different. There is a magic thing though when you refresh a game into the most simplest of mechanics. (Though saying you are a cleric of xyz isn't too hard really even if it mirrors exactly god abc or trg).