Heroism potion and turnig undead?

[garhkal]

IF a paladin consumes a potion of heroism/super heroism, DOES the "Level boost for combat stuff", ALSO INCLUDE his turn undead? IF (For those who drunk a super heroism potion), they are spell casting paladins, Does it boost the level at which they CAST the spells they have? Does it temporarily give them more?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I'd say no for several reasons. First, if we go strictly by the rules in the DMG, it says:

"This gives the imbiber a temporary increase in levels (hit points, combat ability and saves)..."

When the potion is quaffed, the individual fights as if he were at the level bestowed by the magic of the elixir."

2E DMG, pg. 142

Bold emphasis mine. I've always thought the potion merely gives the recipient more stamina, more raw energy, which is why it specifically mentions combat, hit points, and saving throws. It specifies those areas with the exclusion of turning, NWPs, weapon proficiencies, etc.

The second reason is that the ability to turn undead is a power granted by the paladin's god, and the ability to turn undead grows as the paladin gains levels because he is becoming holier and more attuned with his god through good deeds - i.e. a 15th level paladin is far more worthy in the eyes of his god than a 3rd level paladin, hence he's able to tap into the power of the god more so. I think a potion shouldn't give that sort of boost. It doesn't affect his holiness, worthiness, or closeness to his god.

[garhkal]

The logic those over on DF used to say YES IT should, is the potion specifies COMBAT abilities, and turning undead is LISTED as a 'combat ability' both in the PHB and DMG...

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I'd call that fuzzy logic. Especially since it specifies hit points, saving throws and combat ability but nothing else pertaining to abilities, NWPs, etc. I'd also argue that turning undead is NOT a combat ability, since the PHB refers to it as a "special benefit". It is called a "combat ability" because it's used in a confrontation - that is, the cleric may attempt to turn undead, the fighter may use a sword, the wizard may cast a fireball. But to me, the paladin (and cleric) gets his turning ability from his god (as stated in various core rule books), through his grace and holiness, so that shouldn't be increased by a potion. The books spell out that the ability to turn undead is given by the paladin's god, so why would a potion force the god to ramp up that power? It defies in-game logic.

The people at DF are simpletons - they think in very dry, simplistic terms without ever exercising their brains to think analytically. I've been through that countless times, such as during the huge fight over whether a cleric can worship an entire pantheon (which they cannot, according to published rules), and they refused to even acknowledge the definition of the word "pantheon". They ignore obvious typos even when Gygax insists the term or word or rule in question was a typo and is wrong (i.e. mummies getting their power from the Positive Material Plane).