Map sizes & printing

[McDeath]

Well, I was working on an Undermountain-like template map. Each square for this first one is 20 pixels x 20 pixels with a border grid of 1 pixel between. So, I created a poster map 255 squares tall x 155 wide. I surrounded it with a black border and x,y type gride numbering. Its a liitle odd how I did this and i hope to upload it soon.

I am considering making a 16x16 pixel grid, a 12x12, 10x10, and a 8x8. They won't all be poster sized maps. I'll try some smaller ones.


The grid is relatively easy but the numbering was pixelated. The legend looks to be pixelated. MS paint isn't great on creating this. I could try paint.net, gimp, or xn-view.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Gimp works better than Paint, as far as I can tell. Can't wait to see these!

[McDeath]

Dropbox or googledrive is what I'll probably stick them in. Atm i only finished 1. Most gridlines I see fill the page and this is similar. It isn't all that fancy and the one major fault may be lack of space for map naming. That's probably an easy fix. It was why I inquired about name of font used for UM poster map. The second perhaps uh, confusing or overly large issue is the x,y location start and use of 3 grids perimeter around the blank grid. Lordy, trying to fill in x,y with numbers for easy location is tricky. I opted to try a column going 0-9 repeat, a colum/line that listed (00, 10, 20, 30, 40, etc.), and a column/line with 000, 100, 200. I found this easier to fit in quickly. I could try reducing this to a single column/line but you have to use the smallest font size and a triple digit is smashed so tight it becomes unsightly. Maybe a different font would work better. This will be a major issue when i try grid squares of smaller pixels size (16x16, 12x12, 10x10, and 8x8). On those i might have to drop the x,y number system.

This might work well on excel sheets. I tried this with game maps a while back after seeing a poster on DF use excel with Caves of Chaos and some other maps. Excel maps can be fun but they aren't very quick and you have to have EXACT pixel sizes for maps to work well (in my experience). I did an Ultima 3 map oh, a few years ago. I actually forgot the procedure of how I did it.

Hexographer uses a numbering system but I don't recall if it works on grids. Hexes yes.

I'll get a x,y variant done then pop these simple templates onto upload. They can easily whittle away hours just to make and there really isn't much to them. Its just that every uploaded scan of UM poster map has flaws and if I want to try my hand at remaking the maps, I need a template. Its similar to some drawing as demonstrated here: https://www.art-is-fun.com/grid-method


Simple gridline drawing Explained
I don't use letters though. That should be easy enough to redraw (as close as possible anyway).

Lol at this site:

Using a Grid will only lead to an exact copy of the thing you want to draw. It is very similar to tracing in a way. So you will end up with an accurate drawing that will look good but that is really all that you will end up with. You won´t learn anything by using the grid method.

I hope so! I want an EXACT COPY.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I suck at computer tech stuff like this, but what I'd love to do is learn how to impose a grid (hexagon) over an existing outdoor (world) map. Numbered and lettered in axis like on the original Greyhawk maps. God that makes things so much easier!

[McDeath]

Working on the smallest size numbering for 20x20. They seem to fit but just barely. This will save on border real estate. After these two, I will make one for title header using a 1/2 sized version of ROU lvl 1 as an example.

This is the easy part tbh. The difficult part next to drawing is remaking the legend/key icons ROU utilizes. I'll be glad when those are done. Then I can make any sized ROU style maps in ms paint style. Maybe later, I'll try incorporating symbols and floor textures to a mapping program. Maybe the hard part was starting motivation to actually try. I will probably do something similar for a BLUE set like old modules. Those are generally my favorite styles next to a crisp b/w (which would be a UM styled but just B/W. Maybe thatching dead space (saves on ink).

I really should have done this in the winter wet seasons. Well, if i knock out a few hours in the morning instead of sitting like a zombie with coffee in a chair, then that would work well. (I literally feel like a spectre drained husk when i wake up).

[McDeath]

Nearly finished with the UM sized 20x20 sets. I just have to clear up some of that font artifacting and finish numbering two templates with the smallest font. That will knock out nearly 4 templates instantly for a total
11-12 templates. Making smaller ones are pretty easy.

I'll make 150x150, 100x100,80x80, 75x75, 60x60 50x50, 30x30, 20x20 and maybe a 12x12 & 10x10 (those seem silly though)

I'll try bluescale after that which is so simple with this template it is ridiculous.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Can't wait to see these!

[McDeath]

OK, I spent all night and most of today on this. Lordy, so much copy pasta er paste. I even included a bonus set using some assets from those maps from TSR Archives. Since those are scans they aren't the best and I had to get rid of so many artifacts to clear them up. First the link to the google drive and then the links here to view the pics in case one doesn't want to dl the zip.
ROU Template Zip

Since the images below aren't allowing to see full size here is a link to the google photoalbum (imgur rejected UM.. stupid imgur).
ROU Map Album

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Awesome work!

Hmm. Weird that they show as broken links. Yeah, Imgur is weird. Never can see the pics that come up in an internet search when they're on Imgur.

[McDeath]

Broken links are due to google photo being a putz. Hopefully the album works ok.

[McDeath]

Weird, on my iphone they pictures don't appear but on my windows 10 laptop they pop up. Weird.

[McDeath]

Working on Alpha-numeric numbering and basic symbols on the keyboard like -/:;()$&@".,?!'[]{}#%^*+=_\|~<>•.,?!'

This isn't easy to get the solid crisp cipher I desire. Then there is the idea of a light border around them to make them pop and or a solid color. Once the ciphers are exactly to my liking, I can then put those options out. I'd post the idea but I'm on my phone atm doing yard work.

Didn't get much feedback from df. The CODEX pisses me off. Fucking assholes who made my thread get locked and put in retardo land. BLaaarrrggg!!


So, basically a copy/paste to see what people think. And it was an open thread for ANY MS-paint art so maybe I screwed the pooch knowing codexian trolls do abound.
LINK

[McDeath]

I've pretty much settled on Arial Black size 12. It is fine even if it isn't exact or close to UM or DUTM. Now, it is cleaning up the Legend and scouring not just the UM sources but some others. This is a slow process and I've been looking at maps outside of UM as well. I don't know if I'll work on diagonals. Those are very time consuming. You basically need up to 4 directional variants (is one-way doors, false doors, etc).

Then there are the irregular sized objects like 2x2 pits, statues, etc. Eh, I'll figure something out.

[McDeath]

A little side thing I promised I would attempt since developing a key is taking so long. I scanned the Extra UM modules like lost levels maps (600 dpi) I then shrunk them to 25% as they were too large to put up. I changed png to jpeg. Here's hoping imgur doesn't screw up the resolution: My Album




And even your favorite



I couldn't find my old imageshack links (as the site deleted every last one of them. Yeah imagefuckshack decided on a PAY to HOST model like photobucket). So, I managed to get some to imgur (I don't trust photobucket that I pay for to NOT resize).



Those legends are a conglomeration from several years of various maps I pinched symbols from (starting from Moldvay). I will probably use some after I take a look at the SSI goldbox clue books and copy some symbols from there.

BTW, Keep on the Borderlands overland map is 52 tall x 40 wide (again, an odd measure). I can't guess on pixel size unless I go by pdf (which I'll have to). I still have to ponder if 20x20 pixel squares is too big, too small, or just right.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Cool scans! Wow, that is a very extensive map legend!

[McDeath]

I'd seriously trim it these days. Most of those symbols applied more to pnp maps or crpg grid maps. I used certain symbols more than others. Hand drawn can be fun.

[McDeath]

So, while looking for assets to adjust I loaded up a mapping program called Dungeonographer. It had a random maker on it and I was actually able to make a few random maps with its settings (including adjusting grid size). The problem is... it can't handle such a huge map and just goes bonkers depending on room density. Often walls become doors. UM... too powerful for randoms.
So, its in the gallery.







I didn't realize how tedious trying to make a digital legend that is easy to use actually is. And in the end, I'm not overly satisfied with what I have. Eh, its a pet project and I shouldn't get to wrapped up in it I guess.

[McDeath]

I've been having issue with fountains and wells and a few of the circular assets. Actually, some look pretty far removed from UM but that might just be because of program they used, the printing results and whether the images have been recycled and reused and became "muddy" or "dirty" from the original. Mine look either too crisp, or just off. So, I started to look at my mapping programs with marginal help in copying the assets and then it occurred to me there is the bloody internet. So I started to copy the best ones in the highest quality. They'll probably get blurred if they are larger than say the 20x20 tiles. I probably should have used a higher resolution but anything higher would utterly wreck ms-paint for the UM sized maps. Smaller would be fine. I came across this particular one for diagonals as I had been pondering that for doors:


Its something to work with. The original UM didn't have all that many symbols so perhaps that is what made it such a joy to look at. Too much and the maps might be looking like meh. I'd ask what UMIII is using but I would rather be utterly surprised by the reveal. I'll eventually get the legend out for my pet map making idea then release the key and ask opinions from map makers on various sites. The most obvious would be the Cartographer's guild which I didn't even ask for aid. You'd think I would have hit that site first. Hell, I still haven't even installed CC3 and I have it somewhere after that humble bundle deal a year ago.

[McDeath]

Finished downloading SSI clue books and looked at maps. While looking for maps I found this site:

Mathematics Shed - MAPS

[McDeath]

I was in the shower thinking of those map templates again and I really am considering changing each grid from 20x20 pixels to 32x32 pixels. I am just unsure if mspaint can handle it esp when there is a 255x155 grid and the border.

By the way, how big was the grid on the double maps like the old slime level from way back. I guess I could count it up. It is probably pretty massive.

[garhkal]

Those 'scanned in maps' looked awesome at 25% size.. BUT the maps in that program, imo came out shitty.. You can barely see where rooms/doors and such are.

[McDeath]

I can't even remember which site that was. I know i had to paste it onto the template (fortunately it was the same size per grid box). Yeah, no color, stupid random door and coridor placement, and just generally BLAH design). Eh, its an algorithm so I didn't expect much. The larger the map the more it screws up.

Those are pretty huge poster sized at a modified grid size (actually larger than the normal if scaled correctly).

20x20 gives me issues on mspaint. Solution would be use a better program. I'm still curious at a 32x32. I could even use similar but smaller template for various CRPG maps (I'm sure i have better actual mapping programs like Grid Cartographer).

I really was hoping I could get my legend/key crisp and sharp so I could redraw UM just for practice. You just know when pieces look bad. The map will never look like the original unless we got to see the actual process and programs used. TSR missed the damn boat for offering maps rolled & laminated. I KNOW those and poster art would have sold well. They really fucked the pooch by not doing that imho.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I'd really love to get all the Undermountain maps in Illustrator format and get them printed out on high quality, rich-colored heavy paper, then frame them. Unreal how something like that is so frustrating.

[McDeath]

The way they handle illustrator now is bullshit:

$20.99 per month
How Much Does Illustrator Cost? Adobe Illustrator is only available via subscription. It costs $20.99 per month with an annual commitment or $31.49 on a month-to-month basis. Adobe does not offer a perpetual license version of Illustrator, so you can't pay once and own it forever.Nov 4, 2021

Gotta find old versions I guess.

Can I Run Illustrator?
Illustrator is compatible with Windows (Windows 11, Windows 10 21H1, 20H2, 1909, and 2004), macOS (10.15 Catalina and later), and iPad (iOS version 14 and later). No matter which platform you use, you need a reliable internet connection to download and register the programs. You can work offline, but you need an internet connection for membership validation and access to some online services. You can find a complete list of the system requirements for Adobe Illustrator on Adobe's site.

And that is crap. I bet the physicsl media is still $300-400 and requires this bullshit.

Options:
https://woorkup.com/adobe-illustrator-alternative/

VECTR & Lunacy are free. I might check them out. I should check out a free pdf software as well. Adobe can fuck itself.

Or https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/adob ... ternatives

Jun 29, 2021 — How to download Adobe Illustrator for free · 1. Inkscape · 2. GIMP · 3. BoxySVG · 4. Pixlr · 5. Gravit · 6. Affinity Designer · 7. DesignEvo.

Pdf (site kept crashing on my phone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.softwa ... tives/amp/

And https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.softwa ... tware/amp/

Ashampoo looks cheap. I guess if you can pirate an older version of adobe it would work. I don't pay for microsoft 365 either. I use 2010. I won't go win11

[McDeath]

I saw some more maps for sale in kind of shoddy condition. I need to count how many sections of map there is. I should also invest in a good paper cutting tool instead of scissors. I guess a wheel razor like for fabric or those heavy paper cutters that has that huge scimitar blade.