Call lightning spell - so powerful!

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:03 am

I love druids, and one thing I always make sure they pick for spells is call lightning. Talk about powerful!

Area effect is a 360' radius (720' diameter) - that's larger than an entire city block across! It lasts one turn per level, so even at 9th level (druid, not initiate), it lasts 9 turns. That's 9 bolts causing 11d8 each, for a total of 99d8 of damage!

An average of 445 pts. of damage!

The Grand Druid (15th level) does 17d8 x 17 = 1,300 pts of damage on average!

Post by **garhkal** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:46 pm

That assumes YOU CAN GET The bloody thing, CAST... What with 10 FULL ROUNDS (in 1st edition) standing there, like a paperweight, generally doesn't make for an easy job of it!

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:11 pm

Yeah, it's best used for siege warfare.

But man, it always feels good to get that first shot off and do 50 - 60 points of damage on average and the victim (if he survives) still has to save vs. death or die of massive damage.

Plus, the area of effect is a 20' diameter circle, so you can take out a LOT of bad guys with one hit!

I always hated the 1 turn casting time, and since priests get so few really powerful low level spells (compare to wizards - fireball, lightning bolt, etc.), I changed it to 1 round casting time. If you think about it, the only spells with any real "ooomph!" that priests get from 1st - 7th level spells are:

Call lightning (3rd)
Flame strike (5th)
Blade barrier (6th)
Creeping doom (7th)
Firestorm (sort of) (7th)

You don't get flame strike till 9th level, blade barrier at 11th level, and creeping doom or firestorm until 14th level. So I made casting times for call lighting to 1 round, not 1 turn.

I know priests are mainly for supportive and bolstering roles, not as the main cannons of the team, but still - they should have SOME decent bad as spells at lower level as wizards do:

Post by **garhkal** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:57 pm

IF you only got the one bolt, i could see dropping it to a 1 round casting time. BUT SINCE YOU GET one bolt a LEVEL, i feel its worthy of staying at 1 full turn.. Otherwise its WAY OVERPOWERED...

Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:51 am

I'd argue that doesn't make it overpowered because of several reasons...

First, not many battles last more than 10 rounds (1 turn). He can only call down a lightning stroke once every turn, so it's unlikely that the druid will get to cast it more than once.

Second, once melee happens, he really can't use it unless he wants to kill half his own party. With a 20' diameter, he hits his own party for sure.

Third, I think there just HAS to be some sort of very tough spell for druids and clerics to compare to the powerful low level spells wizards get.

I can see many (most?) people thinking that changing it to 1 rd to cast makes it overpowered, but I have to admit that in all my years of gaming, I've yet to see it abused or found it to unbalance the game. Like I said, usually the caster is lucky to get off one, maybe two shots. And there are limited circumstances where he can use it.

Post by **garhkal** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:12 pm

Halaster Blackcloak wrote: Third, I think there just HAS to be some sort of very tough spell for druids and clerics to compare to the powerful low level spells wizards get.

I can see many (most?) people thinking that changing it to 1 rd to cast makes it overpowered, but I have to admit that in all my years of gaming, I've yet to see it abused or found it to unbalance the game. Like I said, usually the caster is lucky to get off one, maybe two shots. And there are limited circumstances where he can use it.

Priests/druids are not supposed to be 'walking combat artillery' casters though. THAT's mages.. Priests are assistants, buffers, leaders, healers..

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:17 pm

Oh, I agree, totally! But I think priests should have at least a FEW spells that can really "show the power of their god" so to speak. A real ass kicking spell with some kick. They have so few.

Post by **garhkal** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:55 am

Which is where flame strke, holy word and blade barrier come in!

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:52 am

But again, blade barrier only comes into play when the cleric or druid hits 12th level, and even then it's mainly a defensive spell. If you use it offensively and the victim saves, they take no damage at all. NPCs and monsters the PCs would face at 12th level would most likely make their saving throw, thus taking no damage. It averages 36 pts. of damage if you're hit. A 12th wizard's fireball or lightning bolt averages 43 pts. for comparison. A victim of either spell who saves still takes 21 pts. of damage on average, far more than 0 with blade barrier.

Creeping doom and firestorm, he can't get until 14th level. And firestorm only does 2d8 plus 1 pt. per level of the caster. So on average 22 pts, half that with a save. Not very impressive for a 7th level spell. Most things can escape the area of effect in 1 rd.

Creeping doom is lethal, but it starts near the caster and only moves at 10'/rd, so it's not that hard to escape.

Holy word only kills creatures under 4 HD, so it's not much of an "oomph" spell, it's really only good for banishing and stunning demons and such.

So really, call lightning is really the only really tough offensive spell druids or clerics get, pretty much.

Post by **garhkal** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:41 pm

It also comes down, to "What do you see the role" of the cleric being.. It seems you want them more, to be like battlefield artillery.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:18 pm

No, not at all. I'm just saying that they get so very, very few truly powerful spells as far as offensive spells go. I think letting them have at least one really powerful spell isn't turning them into artillery. It's more like letting them once in awhile demonstrate the power of their god.

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I think that's especially important in 2E, where we can have specialty priests of gods of combat. If you think about it, those specialty priests don't have many offensive spells.

Post by **garhkal** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:31 am

They've got many to access. Strength of one. Champion's strength. Strength of stone.. NOT all 'combat spells' have to be "BIG BOOMERS".

Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:22 pm

No, not all. Just one or two would be nice, that's all I'm saying. Are those other things you listed spells? They sound familiar, like strength of one, but I'm not sure what book that came from.

But that reminds me, that's one of the very few things I liked about Tome of Magic - the new quest level spells. What did you think about the quest spells?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:23 pm

Hmmm. Quest spells might make a good new topic!