I noticed some strange things in the rules lately

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I noticed some strange things in the rules lately

Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

While working on the game this week (RoUIII and my home campaign), I noticed several things that stood out as strange to me that I never really paid attention to before...

1. A natural roll of 20 always hits - this comes from the 2E DMG, pg. 20. It says a natural roll of 20 always hits and a 1 always misses, regardless of whether or not its literally impossible to roll high enough to hit (say a 17 thaco vs. AC: -5). Well, ok. Let's say the PC (or villain) is carrying a vorpal weapon. He has a total thaco of 17 with bonuses vs. the opponent's -5 AC, so he'd need a 21 to hit, which is impossible (since we already figured in any bonuses, etc). But he rolls a natural 20 and so he hits because of this rule. And he beheads the opponent. But this made me think - is it a fair rule? What I mean is that the sword wielder has no chance to hit the opponent. But because a natural 20 always hits, he does. The rule seems to be there only because you don't want un-hit-able characters. Anyone can get in a lucky shot now and then. Bruce Lee got hit once in awhile sparring. But in this case (vorpal sword), EVERY "lucky" hit severs the head, killing the opponent. See what I mean? Not just luck, but every lucky shot is automatically a one-hit kill shot. Thinking about it, that seems a bit generous, no?

2. Limited wish or wish vs. magic resistance - I had a brilliant player once who played a wizard. Whenever we fought magic resistant monsters, he was always wise when it came to picking spells that did not affect the monster directly. He'd cast dig beneath its feet, drop walls of iron on it, or summon monsters to battle it. Never tried affecting them directly. And this past weekend a situation came up that made me ponder once more the idea of using a wish or limited wish against a magic resistant creature. For example, say the PCs are fighting a dragon and they're losing so they try using a limited wish or wish along the lines of: "I wish the dragon was no longer here fighting us" or "I wish the dragon did not have a breath weapon". I'd have to say that a wish like those would have to get past the dragon's magic resistance. The argument is that the spell is directly affecting the dragon. However, the counter-argument (yes, I argue with myself sometimes) is that we could say the spell is directly affecting reality, not the dragon. It would be indirectly affecting the dragon, and thus not inhibited by its magic resistance (similar to the way a dig spell cast beneath it is not affected). I think I would rule that the wish/limited wish is directly affecting the dragon, or the dragon's reality, and so it would have to overcome his magic resistance. We're affecting reality, yes, but as it pertains to that dragon in particular, so we would be directly attacking it. Otherwise, anyone with a limited wish or wish spell (memorized or on a scroll) could far too easily defeat any dragon. I'm open to arguments for or against. It's a hard call.

3. Penalty to potion creation - In the DMG, pg. 87, it shows how to calculate whether or not a potion is brewed correctly. Base chance is 70%, plus 1% for every two levels of the caster. So a 12th level wizard has a base of 76% chance of brewing the potion, minus 1% per 100 gp worth of ingredients used. Wait...what? :? That's backwards. More expensive ingredients of higher quality should make the potion more likely to succeed, not less likely! So if that wizard uses 5,000 gp worth of ingredients, he subtracts 50%, meaning the potion has only a 26% chance of working? That doesn't make sense.

4. Violet fungus - What do they mean by "rots flesh"? Because this damned fungus is outrageously deadly depending how you read it. The MM says if it hits it "rots flesh" in 1 rd. unless a cure disease spell is used. Does that mean if it hits a PC, that PC rots away in 1 rd.? Is that how people use it? Because it has a very insignificant xp value, but my god, even green slime takes 1d4 rds. to kill you! It seems a bit too powerful, no?
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Post by McDeath »

Seems it wasn't easily covered in old dragon articles. I hate to draw upon non 2e sources at times but 2e and 1e have issues with not always being thorough and basically say "GMs choice to interpret" without actually saying so. Here's a few source/non source:
FUNGI, Violet. 1e MM
FREQUENCY: Rare
NO. APPEARING: 1-4
ARMOR CLASS: 7
MOVE: 1"
HIT DICE: 3
% IN LAIR: Nil
TREASURE TYPE: Nil

NO. OF ATTACKS: 1-4
DAMAGE/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral SIZE: StoM
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil

Violet fungus growths resemble shriekers, and are usually (75%) encountered with them. The latter are immune to the touch of violet fungi, and the two types of creatures complement each other's existence. Violet fungi favors rotted animal matter to grow upon. Each fungus has 1 to 4 branches which it will flail out with if any animal comes within their l' to 4' range.

The excretion from these branches rots flesh in but one melee round unless a saving throw versus poison is made or a cure disease is used. The branch length of this growth depends upon size. Violet fungi range from 4' to 7' tall, the smallest having l' branches, the 5' sort having 2' branches, etc. Any sized growth can have 1 to 4 branches.
Violet fungi. *2E mm
Climate/Terrain: Subterranean
Frequency: Rare
Organization: Multicellular
Activity Cycle: Any
Diet: Scavenger
Intelligence: Non- (0)
Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
No. Appearing: 1-4
Armor Class: 7
Movement: 1
Hit Dice: 3
THAC0: 17
No. of Attacks: 1-4
Damage/Attack: See below
Special Attacks: See below
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Nil
Size: M (4'-7' dia.)
Morale: Steady (12)
XP Value: 175

Fungi are simple plants that lack chlorophyll, true stems, roots, and leaves. Fungi are incapable of photosynthesis and live as parasites or saprophytes.

Ordinary Fungi
Ordinary fungi are well known to man: molds, yeast, mildew, mushrooms, and puffballs. These plants include both useful and harmful varieties.

Combat: Ordinary fungi do not attack or defend themselves, but they are prolific and can spread where unwanted.

Adventurers who have lost rations to mold or clothing to mildew have had unpleasant encounters with fungi.

Habitat/Society: The bodies of most true fungi consist of slender cottony filaments. Anyone who wishes to see this for himself need only leave a damp piece of bread in a cupboard for a day or two. Examining the black mold on the bread with a magnifying glass will show off not only the filaments, but also the spore bodies at the top of these. The spores are what gives mold its color.

Most fungi reproduce asexually by cell division, budding, fragmentation, or spores. Those that reproduce sexually alternate a sexual generation (gametophyte) with a spore-producing (sporophyte) one.

Fungi grow best in dark, damp environments, which they can find all too easily in a kitchen cupboard, backpack, or boot. A warm environment is preferred by some, such as yeasts and certain molds, but excessive heat kills fungi.

Proper storage and cleanliness can be used to avoid most ordinary fungi.

Ecology: Fungi break down organic matter, thus playing an important part in the nitrogen cycle by decomposing dead organisms into ammonia. Without the action of mushrooms and bracket fungi, soil renewal could not take place as readily as it does.

Fungi are also useful to man for many purposes. Yeasts are valuable as fermenting agents, raising bread and brewing wines, beers, and ales. Certain molds are important for cheese production. The color in blue cheese is a mold that has been encouraged to grow in this semisoft cheese.

Many fungi are edible, and connoisseurs consider some to be delicious. Pigs are used to hunt for truffles, an underground fungus that grows near tree roots and gives food a piquant flavor. No one has as yet managed to cultivate truffles -- an enterprising botanist could make a mint by learning to grow these.

Mushrooms, the fruiting body of another underground fungus, can sometimes be eaten, but can be so poisonous that the novice mushroom hunter is allowed but one mistake in picking. The mycelium producing a single mushroom might extend beneath the ground for several feet in any direction.

Medicinally, green molds (such as penicillium) can be used as folk remedies for various bacterial infections.

An alchemist expert in the ways of fungi can produce a variety of useful substances from their action on various materials.

Violet Fungus
Violet fungus growths resemble shriekers, and are usually (75%) encountered with them. The latter are immune to the touch of violet fungi, and the two types of creatures complement each other's existence.

Combat: Violet fungi favor rotted animal matter to grow upon. Each fungus has one to four branches with which it flails out if any animal comes within range (see following). The excretion from these branches rots flesh in one round unless a successful saving throw vs. poison is rolled or a cure disease spell is used. The branch length of this fungi depends upon the fungi's size. Violet fungi range from four to seven feet tall, the smallest having one-foot-long branches, the five-foot-tall fungi having two-foot-long branches, and so on. Any sized growth can have up to four branches.
Violet Fungus *3.5 D&D
Violet Fungus
Size/Type: Medium Plant
Hit Dice: 2d8+6 (15 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (–1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+3
Attack: Tentacle +3 melee (1d6+2 plus poison)
Full Attack: 4 tentacles +3 melee (1d6+2 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, plant traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref –1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 8, Con 16, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 9
Skills: —
Feats:
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, patch (2–4), or mixed patch (2–4 violet fungi and 3–5 shriekers)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 3–6 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —
Shriekers and violet fungi often work together to attract and kill prey. When the shriekers’ hellish racket attracts a curious creature, the violet fungus tries to kill it. Both creatures enjoy the fruits of a successful hunt.
Violet fungi resemble shriekers and are often found growing among them.

A violet fungi’s coloration ranges from purple overall to dull gray or violet covered with purple spots.

COMBAT
A violet fungus flails about with its tentacles at living creatures that come within its reach.
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 14, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Str and 1d4 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Combat
Plant: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorphing. Not subject to critical hits.
Poison (Ex): Tentacle, Fortitude save (DC 14); initial and secondary damage 1d4 temporary Strength and 1d4 temporary Constitution.

COMBAT
Shriekers and violet fungi often work together to attract and kill prey. When the shriekers’ hellish racket attracts a curious creature, the violet fungus tries to kill it. Both creatures enjoy the fruits of a successful hunt.

SHRIEKER
This creature looks like a human-sized mushroom.

A shrieker is a stationary fungus that emits a loud noise to attract prey or when disturbed. Shriekers live in dark, subterranean places, often in the company of violet fungi, whose poison they are immune to.
Shriekers come in of shades of purple.

Combat
A shrieker has no means of attack. Instead, it lures prey to its vicinity by emitting a loud noise.

Shriek (Ex): Movement or a light source within 10 feet of a shrieker causes the fungus to emit a piercing sound that lasts for 1d3 rounds. The sound attracts nearby creatures that are disposed to investigate it. Some creatures that live near shriekers come to learn that the fungus’s noise means there is food nearby.

VIOLET FUNGUS
This human-sized mushroom
tendrillike tentacles and a mass of small, rootlike feelers at its base that enable it to move slowly.

Violet fungi resemble shriekers and are often found growing among them. A violet fungi’s coloration ranges from purple overall to dull gray or violet covered with purple spots.

Combat
A violet fungus flails about with its tentacles at living creatures that come within its reach.
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 14, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Str and 1d4 Con. The save DC is Constitution- based.
Violet Fungus *4E D&D
Violet fungi resemble shriekers and are often found growing among them. A violet fungi’s coloration ranges from purple overall to dull gray or violet covered with purple spots.

A Violet Fungus.
Vile Fungus Tactics
Shriekers and violet fungus work together to attract and kill prey. When the shrieker's hellish racket deafens and stuns a creature the violet fungus fails about with its tentacles trying to kill it. In this way both creatures enjoy the fruits of a successful hunt.

Vile Fungus Lore
A character knows the following information with a successful Dungeoneering check.

DC 15: Many subterranean creatures will cultivate violet fungus as a form of initial defense that will weaken potential enemies, allowing them to gain an advantage against tougher opponents.

DC 20: Although striking in coloration the general shape and size of these fungi allow them to hide within patches of other types of fungus often catching the unwary by surprise.

Violet Fungus
Level 2 Lurker
Medium Natural Beast (Plant)
XP 125
HP 34; Bloodied 17 Initiative +0
AC 16; Fortitude 17, Reflex 13, Will 15 Perception +10
Speed 2 Tremorsense 3; Low-light vision
Immune poison, charm, sleep, stun


Standard Actions
Venomous Tentacles ♦ At-will

Attack: Melee 2 (one creature); +5 vs. Fort

Hit: 1d8 poison damage, 5 ongoing poison damage and dazed (save ends both).

Multiple Tentacles ♦ At-will

Effect: The violet fungus makes 2 venomous tentacle attacks.

Triggered Actions
Death Puff ♦ Encounter

Attack: Close blast 2 (all non-plant creatures in blast)
Trigger: The violet fungus is reduced to 0 hit points.
Hit: 1d6 + 3 acid damage

Skills Perception
Str 14 (+3) Dex 8 (+0) Wis 11 (+1)
Con 16 (+4) Int 8 (+0) Cha 9 (+0)
Alignment Unaligned Languages —
Equipment —
Fungi, Violet Fungus *5E D&D

Medium plant, unaligned
Armor Class 5
Hit Points 18 (4d8)
Speed 5 ft.

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
3 (-4) 1 (-5) 10 (+0) 1 (-5) 3 (-4) 1 (-5)
Condition Immunities blinded, deafened, frightened
Senses blindsight 30 ft. (blind beyond this radius), passive Perception 6
Languages —
Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)

Special Traits

False Appearance: While the violet fungus remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from an ordinary fungus.
Actions

Multiattack: The fungus makes 1d4 Rotting Touch attacks.
Rotting Touch: Melee Weapon Attack: +2 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 4 (1d8) necrotic damage.
Appearance

This mushroom grows from a bed of tentacular roots. Deep violet tendrils slither out of the dozens of fissures in its pointed cap.
VIOLET FUNGI *d20 PF-pathfinder

This mushroom grows from a bed of tentacular roots. Deep violet tendrils slither out of the dozens of fissures in its pointed cap.

Violet Fungus
CR 3

XP 800
N Medium plant
Init –1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +0
DEFENSE

AC 15, touch 9, flat-footed 15 (–1 Dex, +6 natural)
hp 30 (4d8+12)
Fort +7, Ref +0, Will +1
Immune plant traits

OFFENSE

Speed 10 ft.
Melee 4 tentacles +4 (1d4+1 plus rot)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 10 ft.

STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 8, Con 16, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 9
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 13
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Rot (Ex)

A creature struck by a violet fungus’s tentacle must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or the flesh around the point of contact swiftly begins to rot away, exposing raw bone with shocking swiftness. This hideous affliction causes 1d4 points of Strength damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage. This is a poison effect. The save DC is Constitution-based.

ECOLOGY
Environment any underground
Organization solitary, pair, or grove (3–12)
Treasure incidental
The violet fungus is one of the most notorious and feared dangers of the world’s caves. A traveler can often see signs of the violet fungus in those who dwell or hunt in places where these carnivorous fungi lurk. In these folk, deep and hideous scars mar bodies where entire furrows of flesh seem scooped away—the marks of a close encounter with a violet fungus.

A violet fungus feeds on the rot and decay of organic matter, but unlike most fungi, they are not passive consumers of corruption. A violet fungi’s tendrils can strike with unexpected swiftness, and are coated with a virulent venom that causes flesh to rot and decay with nauseating speed. This potent poison, if left untreated, can cause the flesh of an entire arm or leg to drop away in no time at all, leaving behind only warm bones that soon rot into corruption as well.

Although violet fungi are mobile, they only move to attack or to hunt for prey. A violet fungus that has a steady supply of rot to sup upon is generally content to remain in one place. Many underground-dwelling cultures take advantage of this penchant, particularly troglodytes and vegepygmies, and keep multiple violet fungi in key junctions and entrances to their caverns as guardians, making sure to keep them well fed with carrion to prevent them wandering farther into the den in search of food.

Some species of shriekers are relatively similar in appearance to violet fungi, although they lack the tentacular branches. It’s not uncommon to find shriekers and violet fungi growing in the same grove—especially in areas where other creatures cultivate the fungi as guardians.

A violet fungus is 4 feet tall and weighs 50 pounds.

Violet Fungus Venom
Although a violet fungus’s tentacles swiftly grow inert after the mushroom is slain, they can be wielded as Medium-sized whips for 2d6 minutes after being harvested from the creature. These whips inflict rot on anything they touch—including the wielder of the deadly weapon—and both save DCs to resist and effects are identical to the stats presented above.

A DC 25 Craft (alchemy) check and 250 gp worth of reagents can preserve the venom somewhat, although the procedure dilutes it significantly.

Violet Venom: Poison—contact; save Fort DC 13, frequency 1/minute for 6 minutes, effect 1d2 Strength and 1d2 Con damage; cure 1 save; cost 800 gp.
Kind of sad non actually adresses this issue. I guess there is a term for such creatures like these and slimes and molds... annoying isn't is but close.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Hard to decode the stupidity of the 3.5E stats, but I noticed that it changed the damage, in typical emasculated 3E fashion, to temporary Strength and Constitution loss. :roll:

The 4E version likewise changes the effect of violet fungi to be totally different than it was in 1E/2E. Much less dangerous. Typical.

The 5E version brings back the rotting, but throws in the STR and CON loss, which is sorta stupid. It also doesn't define how much of an area rots.

I wonder what the best solution is? I'd want to stick to the 1E/2E version obviously, but how much "rot" would we be talking about? Hard to decide.
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Post by McDeath »

The technical on those editions doesn't solve anything. The closest is some description about rotting down to bone and description saying its a poison. I know irl there are some toxic substances like Krocodil :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine

See adverse effects on tissues and such. To me that sounds pretty close to the "rotting". All agree its a toxin of some sort and not a magical curse or w/e. Imho, this is a case in which someone creates a timeline and effect of how fast the toxin rots xyz.

Recluse and maybe hobo spiders have a similar toxin:

https://www.rescue.com/latest-buzz/indo ... ifference/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_r ... pider#Bite
However, a small number of brown recluse bites do produce severe dermonecrotic lesions (i.e. necrosis); an even smaller number produce severe cutaneous (skin) or viscerocutaneous (systemic) symptoms. In one study of clinically diagnosed brown recluse bites, skin necrosis occurred 37% of the time, while systemic illness occurred 14% of the time.[16] In these cases, the bites produced a range of symptoms common to many members of the genus Loxosceles known as loxoscelism, which may be cutaneous and viscerocutaneous. In very rare cases, bites can even cause hemolysis—the bursting of red blood cells.
This fungi has a far more severe version though. I hate that its sort of left in the air. Its almost a Save or Die situation with solid rot being the final result and consumed by fungi for reproduction to make more.
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Post by McDeath »

So it comes down to area touched like sword of sharpness for decay to entire fatality.

It could go like this:
Target struck: damaged area necrotic infection.
1st round: healed or at end target area rots.
2nd round: target rots more at then end if round 2 target dies from rot.

If head struck target dies at end of 1st round.
If chest struck target dies at end of 1st round.
Extremeties give you a round but thats it. Chances are those unfamiliar are basically going to end up dead with no chance if raising due to nature. Resurrection may br impossible as i've not read that in a while. Low CR my foot.
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Post by McDeath »

Dragon 271 sage advice
How much damage does violet fungus inflict? The MONSTROUS MANUAL book doesn't say.

A violet fungus inflicts no damage at all. Its touch rots flesh. Any limb the fungus touches rots and fails off in 1 round unless the victim makes a successful saving throw vs. poison. Note that a cure disease spell applied before the round passes prevents the rot. If a creature's head or body rots, it dies. When a violet fungi makes a successful melee attack, the DM has to decide what part of the opponent's body the fungus has touched. For humanoids, you can roll 1d6: 1=left leg, 2=right leg, 3=left arm, 4= right arm, 5= body, 6=head. For body hits, you can assume that the victim loses 25% of her original hit points each round instead of dying after 1 round.
I was close i guess.
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Post by McDeath »

And a Gary Quote:
I posed the question to Gary Gygax over in his "Ask Gary" thread and here's what he had yo say:
As a matter of fact, as far as I can recall, no PC ever got zapped by a violet fungi in my campaign either. Anyway, as nearly as I recall the procedure I envisioned in regards its touch:

1. Subject victim makes a roll to save vs. poison:
2. Success means contact avoided and no damage occurs.
3. Failure means contact with the fungi and subject rots away at the end of the round.
4. A cure disease or neutralize poison spell cast immediately--within 6 segemnts of contact, will stop the effect.

Your ruling regarding loss of points of Constitution is an interesting interpretation, but some damage would have to be included with each point of Con loss, or no flesh would be rotting

Cheers,
Gary
From A4
Here's the full encounter (minus the boxed description text) taken verbatim from A4, with my emphasis added at the end:

The branchless fungus is a shrieker (AC7, MV l", HD3, hp 19,
#ATO, D nil), but the branched growth is a violet fungus (AC7,
MV l " , HD 3, hp 20, #AT 4, D flesh-rotting poison). The
branches of the violet fungus form a protective canopy over
the shrieker and the glow-fungi, for if any creature comes
within 4' of the big fungus, it will lash out with its oozing
branches (able to attack any given target with two of its
branches). If characters attempt to harvest the glow-fungi with
sticks or attack the violet fungus by staying just outside its
range, they will find that the violet fungus can suddenly shamble forward several feet and attack them nonetheless!
Any creature struck by a branch must save vs. poison
for each successful strike - failure means death due to the
powerful flesh-rotting poison that oozes from the branches.

The text seems to imply instant death, as no time limit is given.
And i guess from T1-4
Well for violet fungi fans this is about the best bit of official lore, most likely from the typewriter of Gary Gygax from the Temple of Elemental Evil:

The curtain behind the altar appears to be made of a shiny purple ribbed cloth. It is, in fact, a cluster of six violet fungi...

...effects spelled out:

Any hit, however, causes the victim to make a saving throw vs. poison; failure means quick rot. Anyone may easily push through the curtain of fungus, but doing so means that 3-5 tentacles hit automatically. The growths otherwise attack as if a 6 HD monster. An unfortunate victim loses limbs to the rot at the rate of one per round; the torso rots last, and this causes immediate death. The loss of each limb causes the effective loss of 10% of the victim's total original hit points (rounded up), and this alone may slay an already-damaged victim. However, if a cure disease effect is applied within four full rounds of the hit, the victim's life may be saved. (A regenerate spell will re-grow any one limb and return the hit points for it at the same time.)

...and later (special note on the first and last sentences):

Total immunity to disease prevents the fungi attacks from having any effect, of course. Resistances to poison also apply, but only as modifiers to the saving throw. The enchantments here are such that even total immunity to poison provides only a +5 bonus to the saving throw against the rot. The enchanted fungi can only be damaged by certain spells or magical edged or piercing weapons. The drape is unaffected by any sort of blunt weapon (including thrown boulders) and all mind attacks (including charm and hold spells of all sorts). Missile fire cannot pass through the drape to the area north of it (though those behind can shoot through it to the south). The drape will appear to take only a few scratches from attacks which damage it, remaining completely intact and active until the whole is destroyed (all 100 hp), when it crumbles to a the floor in a loathsome mass. Once slain, the fungi do not cause rot.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

McDeath wrote:
The technical on those editions doesn't solve anything. The closest is some description about rotting down to bone and description saying its a poison. I know irl there are some toxic substances like Krocodil :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine

See adverse effects on tissues and such. To me that sounds pretty close to the "rotting". All agree its a toxin of some sort and not a magical curse or w/e. Imho, this is a case in which someone creates a timeline and effect of how fast the toxin rots xyz.

Recluse and maybe hobo spiders have a similar toxin:

https://www.rescue.com/latest-buzz/indo ... ifference/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_r ... pider#Bite
Yeah, have you ever seen pics of those krokodil addicts? They look like rotting zombies! :shock:

And brown recluse spider bites - good god, those are nasty! Give me a black widow spider bite any day over that. Hell, even a rattlesnake bite over a brown recluse!

I do love how Wikipedia says "in a small number of cases" you have tissue necrosis, then they give a 37% rate! One-third is not a "small number"! :roll:
This fungi has a far more severe version though. I hate that its sort of left in the air. Its almost a Save or Die situation with solid rot being the final result and consumed by fungi for reproduction to make more.
Yeah, and the one round issue is almost a guaranteed death sentence.
So it comes down to area touched like sword of sharpness for decay to entire fatality.

It could go like this:
Target struck: damaged area necrotic infection.
1st round: healed or at end target area rots.
2nd round: target rots more at then end if round 2 target dies from rot.

If head struck target dies at end of 1st round.
If chest struck target dies at end of 1st round.
Extremeties give you a round but thats it. Chances are those unfamiliar are basically going to end up dead with no chance if raising due to nature. Resurrection may br impossible as i've not read that in a while. Low CR my foot.
I like the idea of the gradual rot, but I'm thinking maybe I'd prefer a somewhat slower rot. Like say on the round after being touched the hand is rotted, then next round up to the elbow, next round up to the shoulder, etc. Cure disease will stop the spread, but a regeneration spell is needed to re-grow the rotted appendage. Head rot would kill in one round, it would sort of have to work that way. Torso? It seems too large an area (given my earlier idea) to rot the whole torso, so it would end up having to be where it rots a certain proportion of the torso each round till death. Maybe 2-3 rds?
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I think all 3 ideas (yours, mine and Sage Advice) work perfectly. I like all 3. Far better than the 3E/4E/5E nonsense!
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garhkal
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Post by garhkal »

Since one needs to specify wha spell you are casting for the round, how can one get a 'cure disease' cast on them, in that 1 round time frame, unless someone basically PREPS it for that round?
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Halaster Blackcloak
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

I'm assuming the original text means the person rots at the end of the round following the hit, so that would give them time. Otherwise, there's no way to save the victim.
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Post by McDeath »

Funny later editions mention using the shroom tendrils as whips; i suppose modified experiments like golems, shambling mounds and the like could resort to said tactic. Make me wonder if poison immunity or disease immunity wirks against the "necrotic toxin."


Makes me wonder why paladins are immune to disease (or are they as it usn't a class i really played or examined). Poison/disease? Fine line? :?
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

McDeath wrote:
Funny later editions mention using the shroom tendrils as whips; i suppose modified experiments like golems, shambling mounds and the like could resort to said tactic.
They change so much in modern editions, it becomes ridiculous.
Make me wonder if poison immunity or disease immunity wirks against the "necrotic toxin."
I'd say that neither works against poison or disease immunity. It's not really a poison, so that wouldn't count. With disease immunity, it becomes a tricky question. For example, in the 1E MM, it says that yellow mold does damage via "enzymes":

"Any creature which touches this mold is attacked by its enzymes."

- 1E MM, pg. 71

So that would not be a disease (or a poison) and therefore someone with disease resistance (or poison resistance) would take damage.

Russet mold, in the 2E MM, "infects" victims with spore "sickness", so I'd say that counts as a disease and therefore someone with disease immunity (like a paladin) would not be affected. Brown mold sucks heat from a person, so that would affect a paladin.

Fungi are odd because they cause a saving throw vs. poison but are healed via cure disease, not neutralize poison. Strange.
Makes me wonder why paladins are immune to disease (or are they as it usn't a class i really played or examined). Poison/disease? Fine line?
I don't think there's that fine a line between poison and disease. Poison is a toxic substance that causes damage, disease is an infection you catch. Although with fungi as listed in the MM, that line does seem blurred.

I've always thought paladins are immune to disease for the same reason they can heal disease and heal hit points by laying hands on - they're so pure and holy that they have a divine immunity to common things like disease.
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Post by McDeath »

Aren't spores just a method of reproduction for fungi, ferns, etc

https://mammothmemory.net/biology/plant ... pores.html

Seems funny to call spores a disease when its a necessary life function of those listed organisms. Just like how we call cells that replicate too fast (various cancer) a disease when its just replication.

Still, doesn't the entry say poison. Odd wording or terribly inept author of the organism.

Edit--
Derp is me. Just says save vs poison. Doesn't explicitly say it is as later editions assumed and changed to.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

The way I look at it, if you get a fungal infection, that's what we call it, an infection. It's a disease we cure with drugs (or natural supplements). Fungal infections can pass from person to person (athlete's foot, jock itch, etc), so I can see calling it a disease. And since cure disease works on it. that makes sense.

In the 2E DMG, it says that a save vs. poison can be used for paralyzing attacks, poison, or certain spells or items that kill a character outright or when exceptional physical fortitude is needed. So that makes sense from a 2E point of view, since the violet fungal rot would require exceptional physical fortitude to resist being infected from. Then again, the same argument can be made that it should be a save vs. petrification/polymorph, since that can also be used where "a character faces a massive physical alteration of his body". Having your body rotted would qualify, I'd think. So either one works.
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Post by McDeath »

Its funny D&D slimes, fungi, ooze etc are such biohazzards. CRPGS and jCrpgs just tack on hp and treat them like most other mobs. Oh maybe they destroy gear, split in 1/2 or cause a condition like sleep, paralysis but nothing so much in the line of being eaten/dissolved.

I have made lesser fungi, slimes though but i must say the classics to 1st and later 2nd had some doozies.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

They're so much fun to inflict on PCs! Imagine when I finish Level 8 of RuOIII. The entire level is filthy with every slime, pudding, and jelly possible, including a new elemental slime from the Para-Elemental Plane of Ooze. It's a damned deadly level! :twisted:
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