Forgotten Realms Wiki 2015 - Undermountain

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McDeath
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Forgotten Realms Wiki 2015 - Undermountain

Post by McDeath »

Hadn't realized there was a site. I was looking for something and it somehow appear. Not so sure about their format here for Undermountain. The site is a pain to navigate with the ad so bleh to various wikis. That's why forums like these are a blessing as no FRIGGIN ads. Anyway, here's a cut paste of their undermountain content:

Undermountain
This ancient dungeon started as a mine and dwelling of dwarves belonging to the Melairkyn clan. In the centuries since the dwarves were driven out it has been the home of drow, duergar, powerful wizards, criminal groups, and convicted felons.

Aelinthaldaar, the capital city of Illefarn, was founded around -8500 DR and first started to dig crypts in the area.[1] The ancient dungeon itself started as a mine and dwelling of dwarves belonging to the Melairkyn clan that formed an alliance with the elves of Illefarn.[1] In the centuries since the dwarves were driven out it has been the home of drow, duergar, powerful wizards, criminal groups, and convicted felons.

The most famous of those to control the halls of Undermountain was Halaster Blackcloak, the Mad Mage. He and his apprentices explored the ruins and laid claim to many areas. Over the next thousand years they populated these areas with various monsters, magical experiments, numerous portals and traps. Around 1306 DR the City of Waterdeep started exiling convicted felons to the depths of Undermountain.

Various criminal groups use portions of the ruins as their headquarters as do followers of evil gods. Halastar’s death in 1375 DR and the earthquake that accompanied it not only altered terrain but also upset the balance of power among the various groups. It was barely ten years later when the Spellplague tore through Faerûn and once again drastic change came to Undermountain. Many of the numerous portals in the ruins were destroyed cutting off entire levels. Other portals were warped and seemingly granted access to heretofore unknown levels. Also it is feared that pockets of Spellplague may still exist in Undermountain.

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Undermountain & Halaster Blackcloak
Over a thousand years ago, the wizard Halaster Blackcloak whirled to the base of Mount Waterdeep, called there from a distant country by chance or providence. Some say he hailed from the Cradlelands, the nearly forgotten empire that spread humanity across Faerûn, Kara-Tur, and Zakhara, from what is now the Plains of Purple Dust, a wasteland created by conflict between the gods. Whatever his origins, scholars record that Halaster brought with him the Seven, as his apprentices are known, and with their help and his power, Halaster summoned beings from other planes to build himself a wizard's tower. Halaster ringed his tower with a great wall set with lesser towers for each of his apprentices, and he created fields and farms to be worked by his apprentices and their servants.
For a time, it seemed a good life for the Seven, but as the days wore on, they saw less and less of their dread master. Halaster continued to use fell creatures from other planes for construction beneath his tower, and he kept his dealings with them and the nature of the tunnels from the Seven. At length, Halaster's tunneling broke into the Underhalls, a complex of tunnels built by dwarves around a mithral mine beneath Mount Waterdeep. The dwarves who built the dungeons, the Melairkyn clan, had long ago been killed or dispersed, replaced by ofttimes warring duergar and drow. Halaster began a crusade against both races, participating in wild hunts through the tunnels with allies called from the Outer Planes. The duergar stubbornly remained until the mithral was largely mined out, but then they left the drow to fight Halaster and his minions alone. Halaster captured or killed the remaining dark elves, entrapping their souls for dark magic or twisting their bodies and enslaving their minds. When the last of the drow were defeated, Halaster Blackcloak tunneled on, ever downward, continuing his strange obsession with delving beneath the mountain.

Finally, when Halaster was absent for more than a year, some of his apprentices ventured into his tower in search of the great wizard. They found traps, monsters, and tantalizing hints about power beneath the earth. Individually they plumbed the depths of the dungeons, encountering ever more deadly traps and more powerful foes. For their efforts, they were rewarded with riches and magic. When the Seven were reduced to five, Halaster appeared to his students and explained that he had built the tunnels to guard his experiments and treasures. He enlisted their aid to make his dungeons even more secure.

What happened after that is unclear, but only one apprentice is known to have left Undermountain, and she fled the area, never to return. Halaster continued to live beneath the mountain, using it as a base from which he traveled to other planes and distant lands, entrapping strange creatures and bringing them back to live as prisoners or guardians in his home. In time, Halaster sought out magic to extend his life, and some say that it was these spells and items that finally drove Halaster beyond all reason. While before he had been obsessed and deranged, his quest for immortality seemed to drive him truly mad.

While Halaster quested on other planes and sequestered himself in his tunnels, his tower fell into ruin. When Halaster was yet active in the outside world, his home was considered an accursed place, so settlers in the area largely left the crumbling tower alone. In time, the city now known as Waterdeep came to huddle against the mountain and reach down to the harbor. As the city sprawled outward, it reached and encompassed the ruins of Halaster's home. Undermountain was known to these early settlers, and they often punished criminals by sending them into its depths. So it was for many years until an adventurer named Durnan delved into the depths beneath the tower and returned, laden with riches, to tell the tale. Durnan demolished the last remnants of Halaster's above-ground abode and built an inn over the well he had used to descend into the depths. He called his inn the Yawning Portal, and Durnan works there to this day, serving patrons and inviting the brave or the foolish to try their hands at the halls of Undermountain

Timeline Edit
◾ -1288 DR: King Melair I discovers mithral ore underneath Mount Waterdeep and creates a home for his Melairkyn, beginning to carve out caverns and tunnels
◾ -750 DR: Netherese wizards occupy the third level of Undermountain and seal it off against the Melairkyn. Some scholars call this the Sargauth Enclave
◾ -677 DR: The drow begin to occupy more and more of the area held by the Melairkyn
◾ 34 DR: In a large shift of territory following a massive drow invasion, the Melairkyn lose a lot of their territory
◾ 168 DR: Halaster Blackcloak claims the Underhalls of the ousted Melairkyn for himself.
◾ 171 DR: Halaster begins Halaster's Hunts which wipe out large numbers of the drow and duergar from Undermountain and continue until 308 DR. Many drow and duergar are forced out during this time.
◾ 268 DR: The mithral is now completely depleted
◾ 284 DR: The duergar leave Undermountain, having no reason to stay without the mithral resource
◾ 309 DR: Halaster becomes ruler of the Underhalls
◾ 493 DR: The drow leave Undermountain entirely
◾ 1355 DR: Qilué Veladorn constructs the Promenade of the Dark Maiden - a temple of the good-aligned drow goddess Eilistraee - northeast of Skullport.
◾ 1375 DR: Halaster Blackcloak dies.
◾ 1385 DR: The Spellplague hits Undermountain, drastically altering the landscape of the dungeon.

Entrances & Exits

The halls of Undermountain are linked to the surface world in countless ways, both physical and magical. Halaster uses his network of portals to bring in monsters from all across Faerûn to restock his dungeon. He also uses portals to draw adventurers into the deeper regions, rarely explored, and to give the occasional lucky adventurer an unexpected escape. Some of the notable physical links are described below.
◾ Blue Mermaid Passage: This connects a dry well in the cellar of the Blue Mermaid tavern to the Port of Shadow.
◾ Castle Corkscrew: This passage corkscrews down from the cellars of Castle Waterdeep to Skullport, bypassing the first two levels.
◾ Falling Stair: This connects the dungeons of Castle Waterdeep and the Citadel of the Bloody Hand with Undermountain's first level.
◾ Knight n'Shadow: Built over the ruins of the Sea Knight Tavern which collapsed in 1425 DR, the cellar of this tavern connects to Downshadow.[2]
◾ Long Dark Stair: This links the oubliette of the Blushing Nymph festhall with Undermountain's first level.
◾ South Seacaves: This links the Sea of Swords on the western flank of Mount Waterdeep with the River Sargauth by means of a set of hoists.
◾ The Yawning Portal Inn: Built atop the ruins of Halaster's Hold, The Yawning Portal Inn contains the primary entrance into Undermountain, a large well that drops down into Undermountain's Dungeon Level. Secondary entrances are found in the inn as well, including a link to the inn's less well known "wee" well and a passage leading out of the Yawning Portal's cellar.

Levels of Undermountain
Major Levels
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Undermountain-Profile

◾ The Dungeon Level: The Dungeon Level has long been used by the Lords of Waterdeep as a dumping ground for undesirables, hence its most common name. It is also known as the Temple Level, for the many temples of dark gods that have been constructed here over the years, and the Tomb Level, for the many lords and kings that have been interred herein as well. As explorers of Undermountain often visit this level, its features are common tavern-talk of Waterdeep. Notable features of the Dungeon Level include the Bone Throne, the Cavern of Eyes, the Falling Stair, the Grim Statue, the Hall of Sleeping Kings, the Hall of Three Lords, the House of Pain, the Lanceboard Room, the Sundered Throne, the Temple of Gulkulath, and the Temple of the All-Seeing One.

◾ The Storeroom Level: On this level, Halaster and his apprentices excavated the rough stone caverns and mining tunnels left by the dwarves to house their acquisitions and magical experiments. Notable features of the Storeroom Level include the Doomgate, the Hemwatch and Lord Hund Hillgauntlet's Tomb.

◾ The Sargauth Level: Known for the River Sargauth, which winds through this massive level, Undermountain's third level consists of two major sections. The southern third of the level consists of the remnants of the Sargauth Enclave, now split by a massive cave-in leading to the Port of Shadow and the Promenade of the Dark Maiden. The northern two-thirds of this level were constructed by Halaster and his apprentices, and served much the same role as Undermountain's second level. The most notable features of this level are the Lair of the Eye and the rubble-filled Pit of Ghaunadaur, a mile-deep shaft that leads from the Prime Material Plane into the Cauldron of Slime through an intermittently existent planar breach.

◾ The Farms Level: The fourth level of Undermountain contains farms no surface dweller would recognize. Halaster's mightiest magic brought the River of the Depths, also known as the River Sargauth, to this level, where it links huge caverns in broad, sweeping curves, and is navigable by barges. In these caverns, slaves and servants of the drow, aboleth, and other races of the Realms Below produce slimes and algae for food. Halaster controls his own farms here, too, and their produce is teleported to "feed-bin" rooms throughout the dungeon (rooms known to resident monsters as "watering-holes"). Undermountain's privies are also rinsed by magically pumped or redirected water into miniature portals that bring their contents to the farms. The dung-heaps produced by this process are inhabited by advanced otyughs and gulguthydras, among other foul scavengers. All of these farms are quite valuable, as there are few large sources of good food underground; thus, all are heavily guarded. The drow and Halaster have both used fearsome monsters as guardians, including death tyrants, advanced nagas with many sorcerer levels, dragon turtle sorcerers, and even wilder creatures. A large, eerily dark lake at one end of the level supports a kuo-toa "fish factory" of the blind white fish of the depths, an important industry, heavily guarded to prevent food-raids from other creatures of the Underdark with the aid of an advanced kuo-toa leviathan. An island in the middle of the lake is home to an advanced otyugh, piled deep in dung, offal, carrion, and other refuse that finds its way down long, twisting garbage-shafts from Skullport.

◾ The Maze Level: This level contains five major features of note - the drow outpost of Kyorlamshin, the Lair of the Umber Hulks, the Maze of Madness, an old dwarf hold built by Clan Melairkyn and expanded by the duergar, and the winding channels of the River Graymurk. Kyorlamshin is linked by a series of portals to the city of Karsoluthiyl, which lies deep beneath the ocean floor west of Baldur's Gate. The drow of House Tanor'Thal continues to dominate both settlements and the slave trade that links them. The Maze of Madness is the creation of Halaster, stocked with ravenous minotaurs and magic traps to confuse and trip up the unwary.

◾ The Seadeeps: This level once housed two major mining operations of Clan Melairkyn. Nigh-endless mining tunnels stretch westward, following two now-vanished veins of mithral beneath the ocean floor. Only numerous dwarf-built locks and pumps prevent the ocean waters from seeping down and wholly flooding the level. The Seadeeps have numerous connections to the Swordsea Depths, as the Underdark beneath the Sea of Swords is known. At the present time, the Swordsea Depths are host to a long-running three-sided battle between an alliance of svirfneblin and tomb tappers, drow troops from Karsoluthiyl, and certain aboleth and their evil servant creatures. The Savants of the Dark Tide are refugees from this conflict.

◾ The Caverns of Ooze: Largely avoided by the Stout Folk of Clan Melairkyn in their day, the Caverns of Ooze have long been home to all manner of slimy creatures serving That Which Lurks. Countless slimes, oozes, jellies, and other amorphous creatures frequent these natural caverns. For centuries, a colony of ghaunadans has attempted to transform this level into a massive temple of Ghaunadaur, but Halaster has continued to frustrate such efforts. Many suspect that the inhabitants of this region emanate from the bottom side of the planar breach that lies at the bottom of the Pit of Ghaunadaur and make their way down through a warren of narrow tubes, but such a connection has never been proven

◾ The Terminus Level: The Terminus Level is a mix of dwarf-built chambers, now-depleted mithral mines, and vast natural caverns. Many of the one-way portals used by Halaster to restock Undermountain with dangerous monsters open into the sprawling caverns of Undermountain's eighth layer. Additionally, the Mad Mage's failed or free experiments also wander this level. The Terminus Level connects with the heart of Undermountain through the Shaft.

◾ The Mad Wizard's Level: Built by Clan Melairkyn as a trading outpost, Undermountain's ninth level is linked to the Underdark by a large number of sinkholes, each ringed by fortifications allowing a small number of defenders to hold off almost any invader. This level was one of the first to fall to the drow, who then quickly made their way up The Shaft into the heart of Undermountain. Said to hold the fabled treaure of Halaster the Mad, this level is whispered of in Waterdhavian taverns late at night by those who dare to dream of plumbing the depths of Undermountain. Of course, Halaster himself has spread many of these rumors, in hopes of inducing more adventurers to die foolish deaths in his trap-filled Underhalls. In reality, Undermountain's ultimate level is one big gauntlet of nasty traps and horrifying monsters. The waiting treasure is also the subject of much speculation. Some whisper that vaults full of hundreds of mighty magic items and countless gems lie hidden in the depths of Halaster's Lair, while others claim that Halaster's greatest and cruelest joke is that the legendary hoard is no more than a pittance.


Sub-Levels
◾ The Waterdeep Sewers: Typical of many large cities, Waterdeep has its share of sewer passages beneath its streets. What is not typical of these sewer tunnels however, are the links to the famed Halls of Undermountain which ensures a constant supply of creatures to inhabit them and an even more constant supply of adventurers to combat them. Many adventurers also use the sewers as an access point, bypassing the more notable entrances to the dungeon complex below.

◾ The Citadel of the Bloody Hand: Dug into the heart of Mount Waterdeep, the Citadel of the Bloody Hand has until recently been occupied by the Guard. Since Halaster's Higharvestide, the Citadel of the Bloody Hand has become the preserve for the living spells that escaped the Mad Mage.

◾ Wyllowood: An apprentice of Halaster created the Wyllowwood over a century ago for his beloved, an elf druid named Wyllow. Set in a cavernous region carved by a tributary of the River Sargauth, this level is dominated by the Wyllowood, a thriving forest nourished by sunlight filtered through a massive portal in the "sky" above. Other notable features include a temple of the Destroyer and a long-abandoned lakeside village built by the Stout Folk of Clan Melairkyn.

◾ Maddgoth's Level: Maddgoth's level is a small sublevel famed for the presence of Maddgoth's castle. Built by Halaster, this miniature, floating castle is enveloped in a reduction field that reduces all creatures within it to one-twelfth their normal size

◾ The Lost Level: Entombed in solid rock, the Lost Level is almost inaccessible, and its primary egress is said to be a portal guarded by the "Ring of Death," a waiting ring of death kiss beholderkin, death tyrant beholderkin, and the beholder lord Nagus. The Lost Level is divided into three sections - a temple of Dumathoin and crypt for Clan Melairkyn's rulers, a drow prison now dominated by Huntmistress Dhusarra, and a massive cavern carved by a branch of the River Sargauth and now split by an earthquake-caused tremor.

◾ The Slitherswamp: Located deep beneath the city of Waterdeep, the Slitherswamp is a largely unexplored sublevel between the Farms Level and the Maze Level.

◾ Muiral's Graveyard: Muiral's Graveyard is a sublevel built by the drow soon after their initial invasion that included living quarters and a warrior academy. Muiral transformed these chambers into a trap-filled gauntlet haunted by giant spiders, undead, and driders. Although the monstrous mage has abandoned this area, his deadly creations remain.

◾ The Troglodyte Warrens: This region of caves is accessible only by a two-way random portal. It is home to two warring tribes of troglodytes - the Urggroth-Kyan clan and the Szygmog-Thurgin clan.

◾ Trobriand's Graveyard: The Stout Folk originally mined this sublevel for mithral, leaving it, by chance or for mysterious reasons, in the crude image of a scorpion. Before Halaster's Higharvestide, the Realm of the Metal Masters was home to Trobriand's rejected constructs, built before he perfected his scaldars. By Halaster's Higharvestide, Trobriand's cast-offs had organized themselves into a self-governing community for mutual defense, and they took advantage of the chaos to escape through a portal to their master's secret sanctum and claim it for themselves. In the wake of their departure, this level was largely abandoned, but it didn't remain that way for long. After being driven from Undermountain by the Eye, Misker the Pirate Tyrant fled to this level and made it his own. Now a portal links the beholder's lair to the Ilzimmer Villa, and House Ilzimmer has begun storing its ill-gotten gains herein.

◾ The Obstacle Course: The Obstacle Course is a sublevel composed of a long chain of trap-filled rooms. Carved from the earth by the will of Tyr, this sublevel is intended as a potentially lethal test for conceited, cocky braggarts who do not respect the dangers of adventuring.

◾ Arcturiadoom: This level was long the private domain of Arcturis, one of Halaster's most ambitious apprentices. After her death during Halaster's Higharvestide, contingency magics whisked her corpse to her sanctuary, leaving the illusion of a body in their wake. Thanks to careful preparations, Arcturia was reborn as a vile form of undead. She now works to restock the monsters guarding this level, which is now known to a handful of daring explorers as Arcturiadoom.

◾ The Crystal Labyrinth: The drow constructed this chamber as a training ground for their young in the Year of the Blue Ice. Halaster discovered it in the Year of Secret Slaughters and made it his own, with transparent crystal walls, floors and ceilings, and a coral-floored cavern filled with seawater directly below. At the heart of the labyrinth lies Halaster's Aqitocrun, a treasure chamber in which he stores prized possessions.

◾ Vanrakdoom: This sublevel was claimed by Lord Vanrak Moonstar for the followers of the Night Maiden in the Year of the Howling Moon. A sprawling shadow-cloaked temple of Shar and an army of creatures from the Plane of Shadow that defend the abbey dominate Vanrakdoom.

◾ The Runestone Level: Not much is known about this small sub-level located between The Caverns of Ooze and The Terminus Level. It remains largely unexplored though rumors state it is linked to The Shaft by multiple small, twisting passages.

◾ Shadowdusk Hold: This sub-level is among the deepest known sub-levels of Undermountain. It may or may not be connected to The Mad Wizard's Lair which lies just seaward of this sub-level.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

I generally ignore all the post-2E information. It's mostly crap. Halaster is dead, Arcturia is undead, Shradin is a crimson mist (ok, that's 2E, admittedly). :roll:

Just too much destruction of good material and twisting of the source material.

Wow, our Slime Level is very different indeed from the info listed on the wiki site. :twisted:

Of course, so is most of the material we're developing.
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Post by McDeath »

Yeah, I hit a bug and decided to re-download all the material I could remember. All the original, the extra content 2nd, then the 3rd, 4th, and w/e. I couldn't get their product Lost Apprentice or w/e. Sure as hell am not going to buy it. I thought Return to Undermountain was a product produced but it looks to be just an old Wizards of the coast thing that was n their site. I Checked my downloads I had in the past and couldn't find it. So I looked into Champions of Ruin, Champions of Valor, Expedition to Undermountain, and Halls of Undermountain. And there were those few other products or private things I found on the net.

There are other people that even say the Original is best. well, duh!

As far as I can tell though, I think the D&D line is finally dead. Pathfinder is alive and maybe some of the other things but the products for what was D&D up to 5th.. DEAD. I don't really hang out on the wizbro site so I don't know but when I did back in oh January or so... it seemed dead. And honestly, the company should just leave it alone. The people with the passions for the products do a much better job. But, business only think of profits.

Look at minecraft (something else I've never bothered with). While the guys who developed it did make a good profit selling it to microsoft.. I've seen Microsoft has went to Lego and expanded. You'll end up with movies, cartoons, etc... So billions potentially of that.
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Post by McDeath »

A guy on reddit trying to piece together the published material. Apparently he knows nothing on BIP.

https://m.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/3pm ... tain_need/

And a Journal to lost apprentice:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthre ... Apprentice
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Oh dear lord. That journal reads like Sanskrit translated into Greek then back into Apache by someone who isn't familiar with any of those languages. I can't figure out what's being said...

"So we used our dailies and the cleric's healing surge to counter the fighter's recharge immobilize to stifle the golem's will attack, but then we ran out of action points and so the other fighter couldn't use his dual strike..."

:shock: :roll: #@


Is that a video game? A card game? A hybrid of both?

That's why I stick with the real thing. To me, 3E was an abomination and each edition only got worse the more I heard about each one. Nope. Everything after 2E was not D&D or AD&D. Just a lot of common terminology applied to a totally different "game".
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Looks like some of the commentators aren't able to handle a typical dungeon crawl, complaining about 10' x 10' hallways being too small and rooms being too small. Boo hoo! Give us more room, make it easier for us to use our pre-programmed feats and stunts and kEwL pOWerZ. :roll:

Come on! If you can't manage to take a party through a massive dungeon with typical sized hallways and rooms, why are you playing AD&D/D&D? A 10' wide hallway is freaking huge! How big are standard hallways in 3E/4E/5E, etc? 50' wide? :roll:
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Post by Mira »

Thus far, in 5E they are 10x10 or even smaller, many requiring single file. 5E, to me at least, has returned to being more like AD&D, without the complexity of 3E. (4E wasn't remotely D&D like)

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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Personally, I've never seen the need to "upgrade" to 3E or beyond. I bought the 3E PHB and DMG to see if it would be worth playing when I read some stuff that I thought sounded good (tougher dragons, etc). Then I read it, sold off both books, and wrote my infamous "3E Emasculation of AD&D" article. That was it for me.

My thinking is that I have more 1E and 2E material than I could ever use no matter how long I live. Running Undermountain alone, with the material I have from the first boxed set and what we're doing here, would occupy an 8 hour session every weekend of every year for the next 10-20 years.

I get the desire to buy new stuff. I feel that too. I just figured I wouldn't waste money on overpriced new stuff for something I didn't need. I've actually heard some good things about Pathfinder (as I did with Castles and Crusades), but I figured why start a new system when I have everything I want and need already?

To me it's like trying to re-invent the wheel.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Mira, was 4E the version that was criticized so heavily for needing miniatures to play? I recall something along those lines.

What I find interesting is how they have come out with 4 new versions of the game in 14 years.

1st Edition was released in 1977.
2nd Edition was released in 1989.

Time gap: 12 years.

3rd Edition was released in 2000.

Time gap: 11 years.

3.5 Edition was released in 2003.

Time Gap: 3 years

4th Edition was released in 2008.

Time Gap: 5 years

5th Edition was released in 2014.

Time Gap: 6 years

So we had 1st Edition for 12 years, then 2nd Edition for 11 years. A total of 2 editions in 23 years. On average, one edition every 11.5 years.

Suddenly, with the "new" stuff, we had 3E for 3 years, 3.5E for 5 years, 4E for 6 years, and now 5E for 2 years. Total of 4 editions in 16 years, or on average one edition every 4 years.

1E alone lasted almost as long as 3E, 3.5E, 4E and 5E combined! :shock:

Nothing needs fixing that often.

EDIT: Even if we count original D&D (1974), that means 3 editions (Original D&D, 1E, 2E) over the course of 26 years, or almost 9 years per edition. The new stuff is being released twice as fast, four times as fast if we discount OD&D. And I think that's a valid argument, because OD&D was a new game, an infancy-state game that evolved into AD&D, which became the standard then for 23 years.
Last edited by Halaster Blackcloak on Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by McDeath »

They'd hate the rathole dungeons I had then. Some CRPGs I used as inspiration, but movies, and history were also major factors.. ie.. Vietnam war.

Troll holes, are great and crawlspaces where you're crawling through caves that you can even get stuck in are classic. Parties that have to leave shit beind or practically go nude through some dragging gear behind. Underwater version, hot tubes that burn the flesh, coated in slimes, fungi, rat swarms, rot maggots, etc. And I utilized ventilation shafts as well in sublevels.

And don't forget about tubes, whirlpools, sliding trapdoors (thank you dungeon board game), cage traps (followed up but sliging traps or slime pits or ooze from murder holes or oil, etc etc.

Mega hallways (and shit Dragon's Lair the arcade game gave tons of ideas for traps and levels (since then entire game was basically just a giant trap in castle shape.

Puzzles, these are great as are simple hidden shit behond secret panels, flagstones, hollow walls, and dead ends, false doors, wild-goose-chases, and illogical confusion.

Dimensional space inside of space (aka the Tardis effect or like Baba Yaga's hut) and of course oh.. crap I forgot those rooms where you can walk on every side of the walls... I'll figure it out.

Ah... TESSERACTS
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

To me, that's where the fun is. The challenge. Thinking out side the box and using tactics and strategy instead of rolling feats and kEwL PowERz. :roll:

McDeath, your examples are fantastic! I love the idea of hard-to-access areas. It's fun to sometimes have caverns to explore where the PCs can't just march in fully armed like an invading army, but rather have to slither through sans armor and equipment (and maybe with the help of a grease spell!). Makes it more challenging, the PCs need to plan better, and retreating becomes quite a challenge as well. It also helps to explain why certain areas remain unexplored - it's so damned hard to find the entrance, and harder still to get inside after finding it! That's how it should be.

This comment killed me:

"i haven't played in years, but I liked bigger, more wide-open, dynamic set-pieces for combat. For Undermountain, I think that would mean incorporating a bunch of rooms and their connecting corridors into each combat map. For me, that would also mean taking a metaphorical sledgehammer, Home Makeover style, to many of the walls to open up the space and give each tiny room more ways in and out, increase line of sight options for ranged combat, give the more mobile characters lots of options, etc. I think that could actually lead to some pretty awesome combat experiences, but it would probably be a lot of work altering maps and re-balancing encounters, and I'm guessing it isn't what you're looking for in terms of feedback or suggestions here."

Emphasis mine. I don't get it. Do people want a free ride? A challenge-free game?
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Halaster Blackcloak
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

I just read that 4E had THREE Player Handbooks? Vol. 1, Vol. 2 and Vol. 3? WTF? They needed THREE books just to cover the PHB material? And another THREE books just to cover the core Monster Manual? Another THREE books to cover the DMG?

Good god, consumers are stupid. I gotta start a business selling ice to Eskimos. For the price of buying all the core rules for 3E, 3.5E and 4E, I could probably afford to buy a mint condition copies of all the rarest D&D material that's ever been seen!
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Post by Tawnos76 »

It is all about the money and not caring about the customer.

I stopped with 2ed as everything else just seemed like a fantasy game with the D&D name slapped on and had nothing to do with AD&D world at all.

As for my group Halaster is is alive and crazy as ever in his Undermountain realm and still a Lord of Waterdeep.

I never believed he would should go away and I see him more as a foil of Elminster. Both should be around and live very long lives. Halaster just does not need the help of the god of Magic for his long life. :D
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Post by McDeath »

I pirated some of the 4-5th stuff on sites just to look at it. Waste of time. Its just terrible. I don't have too hard of a time turning 3.5 back to 2nd but beyond and its just terrible. Besides there are so many game systems and versions floating out besides homebrew you can never run out of stuff to lift. But before that we all used our individual sandbox imaginations. Some people were lucky to have their settings published. I dont' know if they made a lot of money on that. Lord knows once you hit big business corp your little business gets screwed and dissolved like a black pudding in smurf village.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

D&D was best when it catered to a niche market. Intelligent, well-read, imaginative people. Any time you mass market to the stupid masses, you drop quality. I've never seen an exception to this rule, in any field (movies, comics, games, etc).

It's society in general to a large degree as well. I remember when I was a kid, single-digit age, and playing with my GI Joes and Mego Superhero figures. They built intricate traps and fortresses and engaged in plots and strategies and tactics. The "story lines" played out with the superhero toys were worthy of being translated into mini-series comic stories.

I see kids today playing with their toys and it's like watching neanderthal man banging rocks together. They grasp an action figure in each hand in a manner not dissimilar to how an ape would handle a hammer, and then simply flail away. Doooosh! Doooosh! Slamming the soon-to-be-destroyed figures against the other, their limbs twisted into grotesque misshapen poses as they're banged against one another in what apparently passes for battle simulations these days. It's cringe-inducing.

I watched a friend's 12 year old nephew "playing" like this and had to honestly ask if the poor kid was mentally handicapped. I explained to him that I had plots and stories for my toys at 5 years old. He argued no way was that possible. I distinctly recall Capt. Lazer (from the Major Matt Mason line) being trapped in the circus cage for the Fischer Price Little People line. I forget the details of the story I made as far as how he got captured, but I do remember the cage nullified his powers and Matt Mason and Callisto had to come free him. My friend didn't believe me until I uncovered old 8mm film of part of the event! I was 4 or 5 at most.

I've never seen the problem with keeping D&D as a niche market for "better" people for lack of a better word. Why dumb it down for the masses? They have plenty of things they can play.
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

Tawnos, I agree totally. Halaster is the kind of villain that you don't really ever get to battle. At least, hopefully not! :shock: He's almost a force of nature. Undermountain is such a rich, fun, exciting resource. Taking it out of the Realms would be like taking the Enterprise out of Star Trek - it's no longer the same.

Even the original box set says that it's a wise idea to keep Halaster alive, as an ongoing threat and villain and a story device. That's one thing I always hated about the Realms starting with 2E and continuing today - they killed off too many cool characters. Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Halaster, Arcturia, Shradin, a bunch of the Zhentarim, etc.

It's one thing to kill off a major character once in a while. But good god! TSR/WOTC has been killing their characters off with a blood-lust worthy of the Manson family! :shock:
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Post by Mira »

George RR Martin is far worse that TSR/WotC ever was about killing off characters :D

Mira (CS Lewis Fan: I'd love to visit Narnia! Tolkien Fan: I'd love to visit Middle Earth! George Martin Fan: Nope, I'm good!)
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Post by Halaster Blackcloak »

LOL! :lol:
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